I was reading questions and comments following one of my daily articles and this one jumped out at me as it is quite long and chock full of good information. I decided to use this as an article of the day because I felt that since it was written by a reader, his insights may, and likely will, resonate well with all of you because he is one of you.
Since these are not my words, I felt it would not be correct or proper for me to do a recording.
So, to Warren and all of you who write in questions and comments I say thanks for your interest and thanks for taking the time to write. Like your teachers in school always said, no question is stupid and honest and genuine comments help us all, as learning is the sharing of good ideas. The student can teach other students and the student can teach the teacher. So as in all educational environments, keep an open mind and keep helping each other to continue learning and improving our golf swings to play better golf. Now, here is what Warren wrote, for all of us.
The Surge!
WARREN says:
Look folks, between NinerMike, Randy Beckett, and the Surge ( last but certainly not least ), you have all the info you need to play good golf. Forget all this 1 Plane, 2 Plane, Rotational Swing, Down Swing, Around Swing, Into the Ground Swing, Stack & Tilt Swing….blah, blah, blah. Or, “Buy this club and you can turn pro. Buy this DVD and all your prayers are answered.,..blah, blah, blah.”
We’ve all chased the illusive “secret method.” And you are still chasing it, aren’t you? Well, QUIT doing it! You have all the info you need in front of you, but you need to study it and practice it. The one thing, and only thing, I agree with Ben Hogan on is that you must “dig it out of the dirt’. What he meant was that you get out of golf what you put in to it. There ain’t no free lunch! Surge has said that himself. You must understand what you are trying to do and PRACTICE. Not “part” of the system, the entire concept. Surge isn’t offering you a buffet, where you pick what you like and leave the rest. It doesn’t work that way.
Study Surge’s DVDs. Then do yourself a favor and take NinerMike’s advice too. Go to Amazon.com and buy a copy of Ernest Jones’s book “Swing the Clubhead”. He teaches you how to execute a PURE swinging action of the club. It’s all you need to do. Forget about shifting the weight to the right on the backswing, pulling down with the left hand to start the downswing, transferring you weight back to the right side, turning your shoulders, etc., etc., etc. With all the images, words, thoughts, and positions you have been told you need to know, how in the world do you think anybody has enough concentration, ability, talent, and/or coordination to do all that? Well, the answer is…THERE ISN’T!
There are a few things that are present in every good player. They have excellent balance, for one. That balance produces a graceful look to the swing…whoops, there’s that word again…”SWING”. Funny how that keeps popping up. The balance comes from an absence of out of position force. If you try to “force” a golf swing, just do yourself a favor and quit now. You’re never going to be any good. I’m telling you what Surge can’t. He’s too diplomatic, and he truly has a desire to see you get better. Unfortunately, for some of you though, his desire is greater than yours. You want it, but not enough to EARN it. Sorry, but that ain’t the way it works.
Get the book by Ernest Jones and it will explain what Surge has been trying to teach you….a pure swinging motion. It’s what ALL top golfers use, bar none! Who is this Ernest Jones and why am I preaching about him. Well, he founded this” Swing the Clubhead” method of teaching. He only had ONE LEG, and could shoot par golf. So, for you out there that have both of yours, what’s your excuse now for continuing to play so poorly? Ernest couldn’t “transfer” his weight. He’d fall over on his face. So forget all that weight transfer stuff you’re trying to MAKE happen. I’m telling you the truth by saying that the Swinging Motion will take care of ALL you need to know to produce a simple, repeatable golf swing that will yield more pleasurable rounds of golf than you ever thought possible. It will produce a swing that has balance, grace, and ease of effort. Oh, and did I mention you won’t tire and hurt either?
WARREN
Tell me what you're thinking... and what part of the golf swing, or this great game... you'd like to know more about. If you want your pic to show with your comment, go get a 
Don,
I am a 1 handicap and I am struggling with my irons. Seems every iron I hit, from 4 iron to wedge, is coming up short and to the right. I know I must be cutting across the ball somehow, but I have been unable to fix this. Typically, I can correct my problems to some extent, but I am failing miserably on this one. I have tried everything I can remember from your tips and suggestions, but I keep coming up short and to the right. Can you help me?
Thanks,
Dan
I always say you have to swing the club not try to hit the ball most amateurs big mistake
Warren: Thank you so much for including my name next to Surge. I am honored and feel privileged to be mentioned next to him. I am a big fan of Surge and his teachings. The singer Tony Bennett once said that if steal something from one person you are a thief, but if you steal a little from a lot of people you are doing research. I like to think that I do a lot of research. I don’t agree with everything that most teacher use but I know one thing, the Surge is right on with his 3/4 swing approach. Control and consistency is what this game is all about. Use your strengths and improve your weaknesses.
Surge: Thank you for allowing all of us to learn from you and throw in our 2 cents worth. Keep fighting the good fight. http://www.aboutjuniorgolf.com
Surge! I have been teaching skiing for 45 years. One thing we don’t do on the slopes is stand around giving involved technical explanations. Reason one is that people get cold. Reason two is that most people learn more from a good demonstration and then executing a maneuver on the proper terrain. Almost all of your material from your eight DVDs on through your daily blogs is verbal with few to no demonstrations. One of the problems with us adults is that we read way too much technical stuff that we then try and translate that into actions. What we need is some visuals. How about putting something up on You Tube that would let us see what you are talking about. What would be nice is you hitting a ball with a wedge, 6 iron, hybrid and driver. A view from behind and face-on in regular, then slow motion for each club would be even better, leaving us with the image of doing it right (neuromuscular training).
Warren has a good point, ever since I’ve got on the ppgs, my game has improved imensely, its mainly because i don’t have a million swing thoughts going through my head , my biggest problem used to be where and when to set my wrists how much shoulder turn and a few other thoughts, now i don’t even remotely think about wrist set, I just turn into the catchers mitt up the tree and same on the way through……simple ………..simple………simple
Surge, What about shoes when practicing on the range. All the ranges I use have the mats, some thick/spongy type fake grass and some the hard astroturf w/ set up lines.
I know we want to best represent and stay consistent with playing on grass. So, I don’t know if wearing my golf shoes w/ soft spikes are settling down as they might on grass. Should I use regular tennis shoes, or stick w/ the golf shoes? Seeing how even a half inch or maybe more higher than on grass might affect the body memory we all are trying to instill into our swing!
my own thought is that a “golf swing”, is what those tragic players have, the ones who never know wether they will cream it or shank it. mostly women at my club, a swing has merits in a controlled repetetive situation (the range), but under varying conditions, uneven terrain, wind, the way you feel etc, a swing finds its limitations. A hit on the other hand has an element of control, you point at your target and you hit it towards it, a stroke is a far better term to use , as a stroke combines a swing and a hit. and gives control. Too much is made of the mechanics, a golf club is just a “long raquet” or a “funny shaped bat”, , if the club was flat faced but somehow reacted with different height and distance shots, the standard of golf would be a million times higher, people are frightened by the lofts, I expect the usual suspects will debate, this is the really interesting aspect of golf, but please just debate, dont thrust your opinions as if they are law,
Don:
You are a genious. After 3 years of frustation I discovered your website, have been reading your daily words of wisdom, follow your advise and low and behold lowered 12 strokes of my game.
All I did was, 1/4 turn and watch my alignment, my alingment, my alignment.
Thanks Don
To Dan Klien
The perfect and appropriate answer to your question is right above your comment on this post.
seems like a lot of common sense to me, we all want to improve our games but lets face it we cant commit the time to get where we would like to be, but if we can get some consistancy in our games with the help of Don’s tips, Then that would be what we should aiming for.
To Harry
Very good!
“…a stroke is a far better term to use , as a stroke combines a swing and a hit.”
Just swing it baby!
if Niner agrees, it must be good, the reason golf is debated so much is that its the only sport participated in by wannabe rocket scientists, who scived off school to avoid sports, then they get an executive position and take up golf when they couldnt even catch a ball or shoot a hoop to save their lives, now we have to crawl around behind them while they zig zag from rough to rough and the stupid handicap system gives them equal rights, now thats an opinion that should stir up “mass debate”
I’m a 20-handicapper, play 3 times each week and wish consistency was part of my game. It isn’t.
I have been following your Surge tips for a couple of months and as a result knocked 1.2 off my handicap last week – not great but satisfying. However, my performance graph swings sharply up and down.
Now Don, bearing in mind that time (I’m 70) and temperament aren’t on my side, have you any easy-to-follow tips on how to flatten out that graph ? It’s your chance to make an older man happy.
Colin Williams
To Harry
Harry, Harry, relax it’s only a game. I don’t care about your obscure executives. I only care about you and me and Warren and the rest of the disciples on this PPGS forum discovering how to finally release their “INNER SWING” and to have fun.
Namaste to All
To Colin Williams
The answer is right there! Yes, right there several inches of comments space above your query.
Read and then reread Warren’s personal letter — to you! Read it with the intensity of a religious fundamentalist! Once you internalize the wisdom of Ernest jones, the PPGS will begin to lower your handicap every day in every way.
Re: Post from Norm Crera November 5th
I have been reading the Surge’s website and am inspired to work on my game and seek the consitency that my game needs to improve my scoring (Hcap 17).
I totally agree with Norm – more pictures and video would really help. From other posts I have read, the DVD’s still don’t give enough visual information – which is why I have not bought them – aside from not being sure I can order them from the UK.
Everyone has to make a living, but I can’t help feeling that the Surge is holding back deliberately in order to make a buck or two.
Surge – why the lack of visual help ?
Amen NinerMIke!! Concerning Harry………Many years ago my uncle “Jimmy” had me at his home for the entire summer. The first thig he noticed was my propensity to criticize others. He pounded a rule into me that I try to live by to this day. “DON’T TAKE YOURSELF SO SERIOUSLY!!!” Perhaps Harry can take something from this. I mean if you are good enough to keep worrying about the pace of play maybe you should be on the TOUR??????????
Up yours Harry. There is nothing wrong with poeple that are intellegent trying to play a sport. Just because we can’t compete at a high level in other sports doesn’t mean you have to nail us in golf as well. When I was in college I worked for a big company as a lab tech and we had a big division wide tourney that was Lab V Sales/Marketing V Eng/MFG. Clearly the S/M had the best team but the others had some players. The division VP had about a 16 and played with a Sales VP and me from the lab. The guy shoots a 78 and kicks my 16 (at the time) shooting ass out of the water. The sales VP was kissing his ass the whole way around and never made much of an effort and then there was me. Why did the lab guy who set up the teams put a stupid college lab tech with the big time Division VP (OF A FORTUNE 250 COMPANY)? Because he wanted to play to win and not have to kiss ass for 18 holes. He didn’t care if I shot my mouth off because I was part time. So yeah, he may be a guy who sucked at sports in HS but he’s the boss now.
Hey Guys ~ I just want you all to know that I just had a lengthy, one on one lesson with Don on Monday. I took up golf about 15 years ago, more recently tried a one plane swing for the past couple years. It was SUPPOSED to be better for my back, but certainly wasn’t. My game was suffering so I finally got fed up, searched the web, found Don’s website and immediately changed my swing. I quickly went from a 12 to a 10 handicap. However, recently have slipped back to my old swing path and problems…..and that’s why I went to the Surge. It really was a great lesson, I understand the concept so much better now…..I wasn’t near vertical enough and my backswing was far to big….. and just played my first round following the lesson and shot 43 front, 38 back.
Now for my question…..exactly what position are your HIPS supposed to be in at IMPACT? If not square, how open should they be?
Thanks in advance for your response,
Merry
I just had a “tune up lesson” from my local golf instructor. He said “Jim, loosen up”, get back in balance, don’t grip so tight. It works, after 20 minurtes of instruction, he walked away and said go play golf, you look good.
Just wanted to let you know how using the DVDs has helped my game. I had a round with 7 pars and a birdie! The front nine was awful, but the back nine was a 39, 3 over par! The next day I broke 90 for the first time with 4 pars and a lot of bogies. I’ve been shooting in the low 100s for quite time with some 90s occasionally. My problem know is learning how far I’m hitting my clubs. My distance is longer and my ball flight is straighter.
Thanks for the lessons.
thats more like it, a bit of life from the sport of the walking dead, I love golf, it creates equality out of mediocrity, I wouldnt have it any other way, we should have a mass debaters tournament, all the different theories and styles and ideas in battle over 4 days, the losers have to convert to the winners method
For those of you who are curious about Ernest Jones’s book “Swing the Clubhead”; I found the following website (P.S. I just received my copy of the book from Amazon this morning):-
http://chestofbooks.com/sports/golf/Ernest-Jones-Method/index.html
Go to “Chapter II. The Grip”. Read how Ernest tells you how to grip the club and recollect what The Surge is saying about how to grip the club. Clue. Pay attention to which fingers are dominant.
Don,
Are the differences important? Should we care?
@Tomn,
Thanks for the link to the Jones book pdf. I downloaded it for free (gotta love free) and will read it this weekend and see if it makes as much sense as 9er and Warren seem to think.
Surge, I have to assume that you agree with the Jones philosophy since you posted it here. If so, I’ll give a try.
Ed
Surge
Does DJ Fade and Draw the ball? I am at that level now and the PPS works great for this, just wondering if DJ works the ball or just trying to hit straight..
Thanks
Don, I have been reading the daily tips and posts for about 2 months and Norm and Tony both have a valid point(although I don’t think you are holding anything back) . As Norm points out, As adults we tend to let our left brain (the analytical side) control our attempts to aquire or refine movement patterns. This is fine when done in a controled environment as when working with a coach on the range, but most athletes try to think their way through full speed movement which creates the “paralysis of analysis”. After reading your story about the prisoner of war who played golf in his mind I responded and listed my company’s website . I received numerous emails though my site from your bloggers interested in a product similar to what norm describes. I have been given your brother’s phone# and he gave me the E-mail address of your partner and I have not heard back . Your readers obviously are interested in getting a product for use as a model of your swing. I would love to discuss the possibilities of working with you to develope a neuromuscular training product. This post is not for the blog but for Don .
I am playing golf for three years.I practise golf in driving range often regular.But couldnot make my distance more.How can I get answer of my question here.
Don
I have enjoyed your daily e-mails and not belonging to a golf club at the moment I spend many hours on the local driving range trying to engrain your ideas into my swing.
One of my faults has been bending my left arm in the backswing and after striking the ball in the follow through.
I have been working a lot recently on a one piece take away and the other night I had a sort of eureka moment.
At the start of the backswing takeaway just have one thought to concentrate keeping the upper arms at the same distance apart throughout the swing. Just doing this gives amazing results.
Just try it yourself.
Regards
Paul Pearson
Now I am staying in uk.Now-a-days I cannot play golf due to cold weather so how can i keep my swing better.
Thanks to Tomn for the link to the Ernst Jones book. I bought it a long time ago and cannot find it now. Thanks again.
Grace and Peace,
Jerry M
First of all DT, thanks for sharing the right on and representative comments and hopes of all us AMATUER golfers as scribed by Warren.
Oh the humanity, and toil of we who are not PROS but want to be. Warren has clearly been there and has the verbal skills to express it too.
Now here is the rub. If what Warren says is true, where is the hope that we all seek?. If we can’t get the TRUE answer from good folks like DT, where does that leave us? Is it still “in the dirt”.
Maybe Warren and Hogan are right afterall. I had so hoped it wasn’t going to be that difficult. What do you think DT?
lets face it, golf is a simple game that requires an enormous amount of work. Most people either cannot or will not invest the time needed to be proficient at it. That’s why the sale of golf related “training aids”, often just silly gimmicks, is a billion dollar a year business. And although it takes a tremendous amount of work to be good, it really isn’t physically demanding. what is required is a dedication to the disciplne of the mind and body, which I believe, again , not to many have the time or desire to invest. So if you want to be good, break it down to the basics, yes start all over if need be, with a renewed zeal and determination. you certainly will be pleasently surprized!
Guys, and ‘Surge’,
I think Warren has finally hit the nail on the head (or, put the club head squarely on the ball, for you guys that like things put into golf terms). I’ve been working on the PPGS for a little while, now, and the lights finally all came on a week or so ago, while I was hitting pratice balls. Ihope I can sum this up without a lot of useless rambling, so, here goes. I thought I was doing pretty good, but, I couldn’t seem to keep from slicing the driver and pulling the irons. I worked on alignment, grip, ball position, setup, shoulder turn, backswing, downswing, you name it. That was apparently the problem. After getting frustrated on the pratice tees, I just threw it all out the window and started over. After going through a number of pratice swings following the PPGS rules, I addressed the ball, put the club in the catcher’s mitt, took it up the tree, let it FALL out of the tree back into to the mitt; and, “skipped the rock” from the cather’s mitt through the the original address position (all while keeping the nose on/at the ball) and up to the “T” finish. In short, it worked. And, I didn’t have to intentionally move, shift, twist, or rotate anything. I just put the club where it’s suppose to be, and, all those other peices fell into place without having to think about it. The point I want to make out of all this is that the “KISS” method seems to be the key. Reading the postings over the past few months, I’ve seen all sorts of questions. “Exactly how far apart should I have my feet?” “Exactly how far out should I turn my toes out?” “How far should my shoulder’s be turned at the top of the backswing?” And even today, “How far should my hips be turned at impact?” ‘Surge’ has already given you the guidelines for the setup. From there, just put the club where it’s supposed to be, and the rest will follow. As for the guy who had the question about whether he should wear sneakers instead of cleats at the at the practice range because of the height difference – way too much thinking.
Bugger, Amazon just sent me the book.
Have long wanted the type of video Norm Cregar called for.
I’ve rewound and replayed the little glimpses and that is very unsatisfactory.
I hope this is not a hold back, as intimated. Your powerful sales machine
doesn’t need a new teaser. Some new material for those of us who
subscribe would be welcome and enhance our ability to use the PPGS.
Cordially, Doug
Get a grip harry
I hurt my back every time i finished the game. why did that happened?
To Norm and TonyBell,
If you sign up for Inner Circle, there is videos of both, Surge and DJ hitting the ball with almost every club from SW to Driver.
Videos are shot from behind and from face-on angles.
To Harley Towler
Manuel de La Torre’s father studied under Ernest Jones as well as Manual himself. “Understanding the Golf Swing” is all about creating a true swinging motion with the hands. It is a good but not great instructional manual.
I say this because of an important caveat I will now give you. de La Torre has added some of his own notions to Jones’ system and as a result is not totally faithful to the “hands swing the clubhead” mantra. A critical difference of opinion is most evident when de La Torre explains what initiates the downswing. I think this departure from Jones is a mistake, for de La Torre’s downswing explanation is very unclear and very confusing. For that reason alone, I would stick with Jones and his most faithful disciple, Ron Frankel of Frankel Golf based in Florida.
To Lee
You wrote, “…Now here is the rub. If what Warren says is true, where is the hope that we all seek?. If we can’t get the TRUE answer from good folks like DT, where does that leave us? Is it still “in the dirt”.
Lee, it’s okay! Every things all right! Nothing has changed! No need to despair!
Warren’s great written piece was in reaction to the comments I have been posting in the last two weeks for folks who are suffering from acute exasperation. Had you been reading what I have been stating, your query would have been amply and sufficiently answered.
Lee, this is in answer to your excellent question statement.
The PPGS is a proven system and stands on its own as a methodology that is literally saving the golfing lives of thousands! And yes, hope and the true answers you seek can still be extracted from Don’s teachings. The “swing the clubhead with the hands” mantra is not an exclusive swing system that stands apart from the Surge. On the contrary, the Ernest Jones’ approach supports, extends, and completely validates the PPGS.
Remember, Don puts a heavy emphasis on using the hands (especially the right hand) to get that club up those trees. Swinging the clubhead with the hands provides just the right ingredient to make sure the hands in effect swing that club (head) via a pure swing motion. And it’s this pure swing motion that rights all wrongs and answers and clarifies the myriad number of questions the readers of this site have expressed. Once the pure swing motion is learned, the PPGS will be there’s and yours forever!
THANKS NINERMIKE….I FEEL BETTER NOW.
AND I APPRECIATE YOUR ANSWER WHICH INCLUDED THE USE OF THE HANDS,ESPECIALLY THE RIGHT HAND IN DT’S METHOD.
THAT IS NEW INFORMATION FOR ME EVEN THOUGH I VIEWED ALL HIS VIDEOS SEVERAL TIMES.
THAT REMINDS ME THAT I NEVER GOT THE PDF MANUAL FROM DT. THE HANDS DETAIL MUST BE IN THERE I BET.
HOW DO YOU GET THAT MANUAL PLEASE?
dig it out of the dirt!… This is as true as it gets. As says DJ in the bonus videos on lot of occasions, that “we give you the fundamentals here, but the actual feel for a particular shot must be found and developed by everybody themselves during practice… ”
So practice, practice, practice… and if you have some talent, you’ll get somewhere, if not… well you know
Anyways, I also like Harry’s comment… that lot of the fuss around the golf is caused by the wannabe rocket scientists who actually have no talent for sports… I don’t mean it in a bad way, because everybody should play golf and everybody should play and enjoy playing on their own level. However, this is why there are so many different theories of the magic golf technique, that there are just so many players, how just are not able to perform the physical coordination exercises well enough to be able to learn the game… (and to angry responses… you can tell by the bark, which dog was hit…)
peace
Surge – Warren thoughts are real interesting. One additional act you could follow up on is Norm Cryer’s suggestion (5-Nov2009) about giving us all side-on and rear view video shots in both realtime and especially slo mo of the the clubs Norm suggests
I definitely agree with his a picture’s worth a thousand words
Mike
To Tarmo
As you correctly state, practice is a critical component to anyone’s desire to improve in this game.
BUT……………………..practice is absolutely of no value if you don’t practice the right skill sets. The PPGS is a concept that provides correct skill sets for any golfer willing to entertain its teachings. And one must understand and then internalize those skill sets before practicing them and making them one’s own.
And the Jones’ system of “swinging the clubhead with the hands” excitingly and purposefully allows the golfer to practice the PPGS in a more efficient way and in a more successful way.
Namaste and Amen
To Merry
Please reread Warren’s post located several inches above you on this discussion topic. Very important you soak in his words.
In a correct application of the PPGS (as you are now doing), the hips automatically will return to their proper positon at impact. Don’t concern yourself with this bodily position, otherwise paralysis by analysis will enter the equation and mess with your PPGS. Just concentrate on a pure swing motion. Once the pure swing motion is obtained and maintained questions such as yours will become irrelevant.
was turned on to Ernest Jones 10 years ago. Went to a school in florida to learn how to swing the clubhead, which is run by a man named Arnie Frankel. he studied under Ernest for 12 years when Ernest was head pro at Lake Success golf club on Long Island New York. All I can say is that this is the only way to swing the golf club. All this other stuff that is being taught today is nothing but a bunch of crap. Though I must warn you, Arnie stressed this to me alot, this method cannot be deviated from. There is no adding anything or taking away anything, it must be taught in its pure form. there are many so called students of Ernests but none of them teach his method in its pure form,except for Arnie. If anyone is looking to learn this swing in its pure form you can find Arnie online @ The Frankel Golf Academy. Believe me its worth the look.
To the reader whose “hands” comment is suddenly not available on this post.
Yours is an excellent contribution to the PPGS and to the notion of acquiring a pure swing action. Please post again and reveal your success in obtaining that swing motion and how you might think that “hands” concept might help those using the PPGS
To Bruce
I know Ron Frankel and everything you state about both brother’s approach to the Ernest Jones’ system is accurate and true.
I wouldn’t dismiss all other methodologies by saying eveything else being taught out there “…is nothing but a bunch of crap.”
I would put it this way. If you are not using a pure swing motion in your particular methodology (ie swinging the clubhead with your hands), then you are condemned forever wandering the highways and byways of horrid roughs, insidious bunkers, and ball grabbing water hazards.
I already hit the ball pretty good (2hdcp), but when I play tournaments I have a tendency to start pushing and blocking or hitting a nasty little snap hook. This was caused by getting (swinging) inside my toe line and swinging around my body. Just by getting my plane more vertical (palms vertical to the ground) and swinging a “lighter club” I’ve started “piping it” pretty consistently, all with much less effort. And after playing my back doesn’t hurt, so I can go to the range if I want. Another benefit is that this is a low-maintenance swing so I don’t need to spend a lot of time on the range, even though I love to pound balls. Now I can really concentrate on different shots and am spending more time on and around the practice green.
I firmly believe that there ain’t no silver bullet to this game and like Warren says, “you gotta earn it.” PPGS is simply a better tool to get the job done. It’s up to the individual to read the directions and learn how to use it.
Bruce
RE WARREN’S LETTER:
He does not seem to think much of Ben Hogan. However, most of the players on the PGA tour use the basic principles espoused by Hogan. He further states “forget shifting of weight and turning shoulders” etc. I have never met a good golfer who does NOT shift his weight or turn his shoulders etc. His theory seems to basically be: “Just go out and hit the ball.” I can stand at the practice tee and see about 50 wannabe golfers doing this and what I am seeing is most of those 50 players slicing, hooking or topping the ball etc. ad nauseum. The pros on tour, who are obviously playing for big bucks, work endlessly with their own teachers on the details of the swing which Warren seems to believe are much ado about nothing. The ARE successful pros on the tour because they ardously work on each and every one of these details in the swing. There is more to the successful swing than just go out and hit the ball.
To Jim D
You have totally and completely misinterpreted the message conveyed by Warren.
He does not discount the basic swing principles and body form positons that are intrinsic to a swing. What he does discount, devalues, is the preoccupation golfers have on the parts as opposed to the whole. He’s discounting the need for the golfing masses out there who agonize, who self-flagellate, over particular details that will never ever lead to a repeating swing motion.
He never says “…to just go out and hit the ball.” What he does say is a pure swing motion (hands swinging clubhead) automatically and thoroughly takes all those parts and merges them into a cohesive whole swing action. Warren very obviously does believe in the details of the swing. But he does not believe in those details to the extent they are incorrectly defined as fundamental to any swinging motion. Again, he believes any preoccupation with or emphasis of a swing part will always rinterfere with a pure swing motion.
Yes the pros practice arduously and maintain an inventory of the details they try to address. But in the final analysis — the final successful analysis — they all arrive at one universal conclusion. They all make an unadulterated pure swing motion with the club to secure their jobs! And when at any one instant they fail to perform this universal imperative, they hit bad shots! 95% of all instruction is about parts. And this instruction does not work as evidenced by the increase in the handicap of the golfing public over the last 30 years!
Warren is a breath of fresh air because he reminds the masses (including the pros) that the most important “part” of a golf swing is the swing!
I noticed Alan made a comment about swinging the club and not hitting at the ball. I would like to add that instead of swinging the club swing your hands or the handle of the club. Many amateurs swing the club head. This keeps their grip to tight and never allows the club to work correctly. The ball will go where you swing your hands. http://www.aboutjuniorgolf.com
Where have the posts with the free web sites for the Jones book goneand why?JM
HITTING WOODS ON THE TEE AND FAIRWAY.MY DRIVING MAY BE STRAIGHTER–BUT NOT LONGER, I SEE NO MARKED IMPROVEMENT IN MY OVERALL GAME. IT STILL TAKES ME TOOOOOOO LONG TO GET ONTO THE GREEN. WOULDN’T INCREASING CLUB HEAD SPEED ACTUALLY HELP AND IF SO OUTSIDE OF TURNING MY RIGHT LEG BACK SO I COULD ROTATE MORE–HOW CAN THIS BE ACCOMPLISHED?THANKS-MG
The Ernst Jones book “Swing the Clubhead” is my bible. I go back to it whenever my swing stops being a swing. What I didn’t realise until I discovered this site is that a true swing does not have to be a “full” swing. In fact a three quarter swing lets you feel the clubhead all the way through.
I can certainly understand why all references to the “Ernest Jones” book were eliminated.
Surge is trying to teach a completely different swing concept from that described in a book written in the 1920’s when golfers used hickory shafted mashies and niblicks and a 200 yard drive brought screams of delight.
Yes, I spent most of the night reading the online version, and if there ever was a contridiction to what Surge is teaching, it is this book. By the way, it was not written by Jones, but about Jones, and his method of swinging a golf club. Based on the photos in the book, the swing of that day and that equipment would be laughed at today, even by the high handicapper.
Just a couple of key contridictions: The Jone grip was mostly in the thumbs and forefingers of the hands with the other fingers loosly hanging on. It was a very wristy swing, in all likelyhood the same as the flip or flick of the ball that causes much consternation today. Read Surges lessons on grip and firm wrists for the contridiction.
Also, Jones used and promoted a very roundhouse swing with the club barely getting above the shoulders on the backswing and not much above the beltline on the forward swing. Constrast Surge’s up-a-tree, straight up club shaft and the T-finish.
If you want to redicule Surge and his way of teaching, feel free, but before you do, study his methods and give them a try before casting aspersions.
That goes for you, too, Warren.
RESPONSE TO NINERMIKE:
Re my note regarding Warren’s note. You state: “You have totally and completely misinterpreted the message by Warren.” And I always believed that I knew how to read. I wonder how I ever made Law Review at UCLA Law School.
Warren had stated in part: “Forget about shifting the weight back to the right side, pulling down with the left hand to start the downswing, transfering you (sic) weight back to the right side, turning your shoulders etc. etc. etc.”
I am a scratch golfer. I frankly begin my downswing by the movement of my left hip and believe that is what most scratch golfers and pros do so would agree that “pulling down with the left hand to start the downswing” is perhaps not the best approach. However, as to his other statements re what should be “forgotten” I could not disagree more. They are the basics of the good golf swing.
Consequently, I take umbrage with your telling me that I totally and completely misinterpreted Warren’s note. The last thing I need in my life is a lecture from you. If Warren disagrees with my assessment of his note let him speak. I don’t believe that he needs you to intrepret for him.
I believe it is the same person. Who is Ninermike anyway, and who made him the chief cook and bottlewasher.
If it is DJ using a pseudonym, okay. Otherwise, leave the instruction to the Surge, please.
I really do agree with Norm Crerar and his comments abut needing more demonstrations of the “swing” which we paid 80.00 to learn. It would be nice to see more slow motion from different angles and different people using the “swing” like women, seniors, and kids. Visualization is a huge part of learning something new and these dvd’s didn’t provide that for me. Having Don explaining different phases of the swing while other golfers or himself or his son demonstrate would be great. I understand the ideas of what Don is trying to to convey. ‘In the Catchers Mitt and Up the Tree’, I would like to see the catchers mitt position and the where that tree is I’m supposed to be going up, or possibly some side by side slow motion comparisons of Dons’ swing vs. big shoulder turn swings and how the hands,arms and shoulders move through their respective swings so we can understand the differences of how each works or doesn’t work.
Lots of general advice and theory , how about lots of video and detailed instruction to go along with.
Robert
orlando
Rather than single out certain readers for a response to their statements about my post, I will attempt to answer all of the posters with one response, if that doesn’t offend anyone. As i expected, some have castigated me, some have agreed, and others still are wondering where i got the drugs I am taking.
NinerMike, thanks for all the nice comments, and the support of my “dis-believers”.
I read the book about Ernest Jones and was very impressed with his teachings. Even though the equipment was different in those days, his theory still holds true. Arnie Frankle did a VHS on this theory and he is a devout student of Ernest Jones. Arnie has played some International Tournament Golf as well, and he used in the equipment of the day in the video…steel shafts, not hickory.
The swing is not a rotational swing that he teaches, in that there is no turning of the body back behind you. ANSON, I think maybe you might be getting the Club and the body mixed up there…and I’m not trying to interpret for you. I’m just making a guess. Also, about the deviation from so-called “movements” that are deemed to be “fundamentals”, I stand firm in my opinion that it is not necessary to be concerned about them. They will be “automatically” performed if the swinging motion is done properly. Your mind will “automatically tell your body where to move on it’s own. You missed on of my important points…BALANCE. Your body will strive to keep that balance, so as not to cause a problem….like falling over. That is why balance is so important.
To those that say we are doomed to never be able to approach a certain level of “pro-ness”, again, you have missed my message. What I strived to say, and maybe didn’t hit the point for you, was that you CAN hit a higher level of proficiency in golf with a swinging motion! And it is a heckuva lot easier than trying to copy the “position” that the latest major monthly golf publication advocates you to get into, otherwise you have no hope of ever playing good golf. Au Contraire!
What I am saying to all of you is that ALL OF YOU have the talent inside you to reach higher levels of proficiency. How’s that for a claim? I GUARANTEE IT! Now, before you start telling me I sound like the Shylock’s that are trying to pawn off the latest and greatest to you, let me explain. I didn’t say that once you learn how to make a pure swinging motion, you can quit your job and head for the PGA Tour Qualifying School. Some of you will have more success than others. Sorry, but that’s just the way life is. I wish I could throw a football like Tim Tebow too, but it will never happen. He is truly gifted. But if I wanted to get better at it, with proper training, and PRACTICE, I could improve.
I just happen to believe that once you understand how, and why, the swinging motion produces extraordinary results with MINIMAL effort, you will wonder why it took you so long to find out about it. Opps, I’m starting to sound like Surge’s comments now. No plagarism implied, YOUR SURGEMAN!
You will be able to hit straighter shots as if it was magic, and with very little effort. But the best thing is, and I think NinerMike eluded to this, you can lay off for a couple of weeks, come back out to the course, and still “have it”. Now be honest, how many of you can really say that now? Not many, I suppose. And you folks up North, who won’t see green grass for another 4 months at least, how would you like to be able to do that? Man, if that doesn’t give the real testimonial to the theory, I really am at a loss as to how to convince you.
Heck, give it a try, and you’ll see that it is not a alternate to Surge’s teachings. It is very much a compliment to them. And that is meant in both ways, Surge!
To Anson Galyon
Gee Anson, you wrote with such great insight about the Jones’method and how you felt it was contrary to the Surge’s PPGS.
“…Who made you the chief cook and bottle washer. If it is DJ using a pseudonym, okay. Otherwise, leave the instruction to the Surge, please.”
To All Others
The Ernest Jones approach to the swing in no way disparages, contradicts, or even limits the tenets of the PPGS. The Surge even endorses Jones as evident by his post of Warren’s sage advice.
The rotary fundamentalists are suddenly terrified of a swing revelation that is the basis of all great swing actions. Why? Well, again let me repeat. The golfing public has seen an in increase in their collective handicap over the last 30 years. And it is because that same golfing public has been exposed to contemporary instruction, most of which, simply doesn’t work!
The Surge’s PPGS is a direct response to this instructional failing. And the PPGS is an approach that has evolved a better swing system by taking only the best from systems of the past. Jones is being revived today not because of intellectual bias or a holier than thou attitude. His method is being revived because it instinctively goes to the heart of the matter as to what is lacking in most swing instruction of the current day.
To Jim D
My oh my. Somebody’s unmentionables are suddenly tied up in wads! Hey Mr. Law Review, I didn’t tell you couldn’t read. I stated you misinterpreted what you absorbed. Please reread what you thought you read of my criticism of your misinterpretation. I then will grade you out for any future legal review.
You don’t have to take umbrage with me just like I don’t have to take umbrage with you. Gee Jim D, “umbrage” is an awfully abrasive, assault kind of word to let loose here on a site that doesn‘t even allow anyone to carry concealed weapons including squirt pistols. “Umbrage” even sounds faintly like some anachronistic legal term.
You stated “…Warren had stated in part: ’get about shifting the weight back to the right side, pulling down with the left hand to start the downswing, transferring your weight back to the right side, turning your shoulders etc. etc. etc.’ “
Warren quite correctly was only offering that in a true swinging motion these body positions are automatically attained. Now Jim D, you are an admitted scratch golfer who must be afflicted with a lot of “itches” (LoL)! So truth be told, you could “bump” into the night your hip and pull on the club like the proverbial liberty bell, but all of these gyrations would be for naught if you were not putting a righteous swing on the club. You’ve got a swing already in place. There is no doubt about this unobserved observation. That’s why you can bump and pull to your heart’s content. Without your instinctive swing motion, all your bumps and pulls might be good for is the basic components for a new dance revival.
“…pulling down with the left hand to start the downswing” is perhaps not the best approach. However, as to his other statements re what should be “forgotten” I could not disagree more. They are the basics of the good golf swing.”
I applaud your submission that the pulling down theory is not exactly kosher. But Warren does not advocate that the body positions be forgotten. On the contrary, the Jones‘ system and the PPGS honor and validate those body positions as being precise and complimentary to the swing — they do not denigrate their importance. Warren and Jones and the PPGS simply put all things in a precise “order of importance.”
And Jim D, you are spot on correct that these body positions are “…the basics of the good golf swing.” And it is that “good golf swing” that integrates, make viable those positions — not the other way around.
Lastly you reported “…The last thing I need in my life is a lecture from you. If Warren disagrees with my assessment of his note let him speak. I don’t believe that he needs you to intrepret (sic) for him.”
Awe sweetheart, can’t we make up and just get along! I promise to never lecture you again. But I might just want to express some heartfelt feelings to your personage from time to time when the desire in me warrants.
Hey, Namaste and Take Care!
While I certainly agree that too much analysis of golf positions, etc. can lead to paralysis, and I do see that learning to SWING the clubhead is critical……But, some of you guys have to understand that it is necessary for many of us to comprehend the mechanics. I also agree that watching videos of the swing is very helpful. During my lesson with Don, we filmed HIM hitting some shots…….which was amazing how this man drove 1 1/2 hours, gets out of the car, doesn’t stretch or warm up, and hits perfect shots. Just today, I watched the dvd several times and slowed down and paused his swing to answer my remaining questions. Hopefully, this will now give me the confidence to go out and make a better swinging motion.
I really am enjoying PPGS. This is easily the most help for the money my game has seen. For less than the cost of two rounds, I have the videos and the manual. I feel that my game is getting better. I enjoy the blogs. I like all kinds of blogs. I follow several that have to do with golf, fishing, and hunting. What I don’t enjoy is NinerMike acting like CNN and telling me this is what “so and so” said and this is what they meant. I really do believe he has great insight on PPGS and many, in fact most, of his comments are helpful. BUT, my opinion, he also tends to get his hackles up very quickly when others don’t see things his way. I would like to see more input from DT in these blogs but I understand he is supplying the venue and I take it for what it is. Like many, I would like to find an instructor who teaches PPGS. I think it would speed up the process to improvement. Even the great Jack Nicklaus used to see Jack Grout occasionally for a tune up.
To Merry
Great comment Merry! And kudos to this most important of all of your reactions “… Hopefully, this will now give me the confidence to go out and make a better swinging motion. ”
And that is precisely why Don was able to get out of his car and hit perfect PPGS shots. He has refined and encapsulated to the finest degree a pure swinging motion that will always be instinctive and will always be there for his application — at any time and any place!
To Allan S
Thank you your critique which I found to be very even handed. It was very much appreciated.
Yes, I do get very emotional at times when it comes to blowing away all of the mis-information that has been presented by the majority of instruction in this country to the absolute detriment of the common golfer. The exasperation, the angst, the dismay, the fatalism folks display on this site is heart wrenching to me. That is why I excitingly and enthusiastically promote two of the game’s greatest instructors, Don Trahan and Ernest Jones. And that is why I usually engage in a calm, mutually supportive discussion of questions and answers, of agreements and disagreements, when trying to sort out and clarify the eternal excellent concepts espoused by these two men.
My ego easily and naturally accepts criticism and new insight from other’s insightful perspectives. But when an individual is simply out to disparage and ridicule opinion because of whatever deep seeded subconscious need to express a personal frustration on their own life circumstance by way of this golf forum, then yes, I react in kind with ‘hackles“ very much up in the air.
Now Jim D on this post took very personally my observation he misinterpreted Warren’s words. He got caught up in his own insecure moment and lashed out. Cried out I was disrespecting his ability to read. But alas, I was only being critical of his opinion — not of him or his intelligence. Once he settled down, he became rational and maturely challenged my position on the swing motion. And that was okay and I accepted his opinion as valid (while at the same time disagreeing with his premise).
I sense we mutually understand one another now and you will see any further communication between us less emotional and infinitely more purposeful.
Amen and Namaste
Don: I couldn’t help but watch all the DVDs at one time last night. Went straight to the course this morning without any practice. I couldn’t believe some of the shots I was hitting. Even though I didn’t shoot my low score (no wonder, huh, no practice?), I hit more good shots in one round than I usually do in two or three weeks. I hit the stick two or three times, including one that was three inches shy of an ace. I thought I’d probably be asking for my money back. Not a chance – best golf investment I’ve ever made! Thank’s for working so hard on a great system.