- Audio version at the end of this post –
I turned on The Golf Channel the other day and caught a short piece of a “Playing With the Pros” show featuring JB Holmes. I had seen this show featuring JB a few times but had never watched it all. This time I came in near the end of the show, which I had never seen, just in time to hear his Lady amateur student ask a question that perked my ears up. And JB’s answer was music to my ears.
The question was first preceded with a statement about his having a real short, ¾ backswing and it was obvious he did not cock his wrists at the top of his backswing. I will add that JB’s backswing is also quite vertical and close to, if not, 12:00 o’clock. She then asked her question, “Why did he not swing to parallel and cock his wrists at the top of the backswing.”
JB’s answer was short and sweet. He said that if he cocked his wrists he lost at least 20 yards and hit it dead right. I can’t remember exactly what JB said but I am sure the reference was that the longer swing and wrist cock, it messed up his timing. His shoulders likely start the transition and get ahead of the ball and that is what causes the block dead right shots.
JB went on to explain that in his transition, he starts his lower body, feeling his hips move first. Then in order, it is his trunk, shoulders, arms, hands and club. This is the same sequence The PPGS recommends as it starts from the ground up. Starting the transition with a lateral forward shift or slide of the lower body is what causes the upper torso to tilt slightly backwards and thus is behind the ball to impact.
JB then went on to discuss his power level and said that he doesn’t really swing that hard anymore. He said that in his younger years he was all about hitting it as hard as he could. He said that back then he swung so hard both feet came off the ground. Now he swings hard but keeps both feet on the ground.
I can attest to JB’s length as I witnessed it first hand up close. Two years ago at the Players Championship, DJ played a practice round with JB. I was walking side by side with both of them. The 12th hole at TPC Sawgrass is listed on the scorecard as playing 358 yards from the championship tees. That morning, the wind was calm and the temperature was not yet scorching hot and humid.
The 12th hole is a slight dogleg left. It plays maybe 20 to 30 yards shorter straight lining it over the corner. This still is at the least a 325 yard, all air carry drive to the slight elevated or pop-up green surrounded by a number of small and deep bunkers. The rough is always real high and thick especially around the green which, along with all the bunkers, makes rolling a ball up impossible. The only way to hit the green is air it there all the way. They teed it up from just about dead back on the tee.
DJ hit first and hit a 3 wood right down the middle in perfect position for a short sand wedge to the green. JB walked up with his driver in hand and teed his ball real high as he was going for the green. He made a powerful swing, a ¾ backswing with firm, solid, “no cocking” wrist like I believe in, swing and teach, and the ball exploded off the clubface and was launched sky high over the corner toward the green. The few trees and the high rocks and mounds on the corner hide the green so we could not see the ball land.
We walked out to DJ’s ball and when we reached it we could see JB’s ball on the green. I shook my head in awe as I know his ball flew all the way as there is no landing short and running the ball up onto this green. I looked at JB and sized him up. He doesn’t look much bigger than me and even in my best younger and stronger days, I could not have flown the ball to this green, even from the ladies tees.
JB Holmes, according to his PGA Tour Player profile is 5 feet 11 inches tall and weighs 190 pounds. From what I just saw, JB can hit it 320 plus in the air anytime he wants. That is super long for a guy his size. So, it is obvious he is quite strong and can generate some serious club head speed.
After DJ hit and we were walking to the green seeing his ball sitting up on it, I asked JB if he worked out doing strength conditioning. His comment was, “Never have and likely never will. I have always had really fast hands.” I can attest to it. He has really fast hands and that translates to really fast club head speed.
Using a ¾ vertical backswing with no wrist cock, JB said it all a proved that was the way to hit it longer and straighter. Best of all he can really back up his statement as he showed us on the 12th hole that day, and you can see for yourself by following him any time he plays on the PGA Tour.
The Surge!
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How about some tips on putting.
Just read the feed on JB…I’d seen that “Playing Lesson” a couple of times and was always impressed by the simple backswing. That’s one of the things that attracted me to the PP swing when I discovered it. It also occurred to me that they almost all swing that way, at least from their mid-irons down. Now, would you care to comment on Camilo’s wide knees, 3/4 backswing, and jaw-dropping distance off the tee?
Thanks Surge!
PLEASE SOMEONE TELL WHAT “FAST HANDS” MEANS.
ISN’T THAT A LOT LIKE WHAT YOU DO WHEN YOU COCK YOUR WRISTS?
The “Double Pendulum” model, e.g. arms and shoulders as the first pendulum, hands and club pivoting at the wrist as second pendulum, counsels cocked wrists to get the most out of the second pendulum action, which creates the maximum theoretical acceleration.
Can you explain using the double pendulum model why you advocate AGAINST wrist cocking and how, using your teachings, someone can still maximize swing power?
Surge, For a golfer in his 70’s what size and degree Driver to you recommend? Presently, I use a 460 CC with 10.5 and occasionally hit 250 yrds.
Hey Surge,
I’ve been reading your e-mail and watching your videos, I hope my results are more accurate than your description of # 12 @ TPC Sawgrass, The hole is a par 4 not 3. I’m learning as I age, the body doesn’t always do what the brain tells it. Keep teachin.
Chillin in MI, Kevin
This is an opening to ask you about Steve Stricker’s swing; in my opinion he has similar qualities in his swing. Definitely no wrist cocking and 3/4 back. Commentators on TV have stated that his swing ‘has few moving parts’ and thus less to go wrong!
Here’s the video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDITOuFyjmw
Don: At 72 I still hit the ball pretty well. I have been using your system but in the cold weather, all bundled up, I don’t get the feel all the time. Can’t wait for short sleeve weather.
I am having a problem. For some reason I am hitting my middle irons(4-8) on the toe of the club and am not sure what is causing this,
Can you help.
Many thanks for helping
Charles Rankin
Wow! Thanks FrankM for UTUBE link. Everyone should see it. 3/4, no wrist cock and actually fairly verticle. If you’ll notice on the same link there is a side by side comparison video of Daly and JB Holmes.I recomend that for an educational watch too. Really big differnces in backswings yet similar through hitting area. JB’s looks much more do-able and closer to the body friendly PPGS. Daly’s looks painful! Very helpful link to see what Surge is talking about! Thanks Don, great blog today.
Down the middle, Robert
“par three, #12 green at TPC Sawgrass. 330 yards”
Really? That’s a long par three!
Hey guys, one more thought on JB Holmes drive on UTUBE. If you pause at the down the line shot (which happens at very beginning of video- so you’ll need to be ready with the pause button quickly), his hands and arms are very verticle on and up the toe line. He does lay off slightly to about 10-10:30 with the clubhead, otherwise fairly darn verticle. His finish (on follow through) has the hands by the left ear as Don also recomends.Cool stuff!
Robert
It’s a par 4, but come on guys give Don a little break for a small oversite.
Ditto 72 year young Mr. Rankin…most of my iron shots are hit a 1/2 ball outside of sweet… some instructors will tell you to play your approach distance to the back of green because “amateurs are always short”, which ordinarily is true… until you flush one and it sails! I have not yet implemented the Surge swing – just wonder what that may do for predominate off center hits…
I would agree ,regarding JB on the backswing.That is where it ends though w Peak Performance.From there he uses a kinematics sequence with Golfing Machine principles.He unwinds his legs and torso and punches at the ball with his right shoulder and arm.Releasing all his stored energy.
Thanks
George
Dosen’t JB wrist cock on the down swing like Sergio.
Not that it matters, 325 yards is 325 yards, we must get a different version in Australia, no mention of a par 3 on blog here, what else are we missing.
I found the vertical swing very helpful with short irons and helped stopped some nasty shanks. I had a harder time with hybrids and woods. However, your email about “wide knees” really helped. It helped keep my feet on the ground and hit straighter shots. Also, it dawned on me to use “wide knees” on putting and it has really helped me keep a steady pendulum swing.
Gentlemen, I do not see anywhere in this post that Don refers to the hole as a par 3 and I have read it three times!
Happy Golfing
Ken
I hit at the range today and i have to say after i month of watching your video series i am hitting straiter and more consistent. the fairway is the place to be. i am also hitting my driver fairly well. thanks for all your daily tips regards Rob
Thanks for the video link of JB and I can see similarities between his swing and the PPGS so I am not at all surprised by the effectiveness of his swing.
Happy Golfing
Ken
Don’t get flustered over the small stuff guys, the accidental referance by Surge to a par 3 is in the opening remarks of the e-mail, not the blog.
Peace and down the middle,
Robert
I just sent in a comment and a message popped up that said submitting comments too quickly… slow down.
And my comment was deleted…
I haven’t posted a comment here in several weeks… what’s the deal guys?
To someone who saw no mention that the hole was a par 3…
I received the following email message today from Don…
Dear student of the Peak Performance Golf Swing,
When JB Holmes first came on Tour, he was in the top three in driving distance. I was next to him when he nailed one, all air, to the par three, #12 green at TPC Sawgrass. 330 yards. Three quarter backswing. No wrist cock. JB doesn’t use the PPGS. But there are elements I definitely like.
Click here for my memory of that day at The Players Championship.
Stay vertical,
Don Trahan
The Surge!
Hey, I thought it was a 300 yard par three, there are some of those around for sure!
ROBERT ALLENBY WAS ON PLAYING LESSONS WITH THE PROS TODAY, HE ALSO SAID HE USES 3/4 SWING WITH HIS IRONS FOR CONTROL[IMAGINE THAT]
Wow, the Surge and Larry Jacobs conducted a great conference call today on Larry’s Thin for Life weight loss program. I had no idea Don’s weight is now down to within 2 or 3 pounds of what he weighed in college.
The dramatic before and after picture of Don on the web page is worth seeing.
http://www.donsoffer.com/major-discount-offer
I hope there is an audio file or mp3 available. I’d like to hear it again.
Atta Boy Surge!!!
-A
1. How do you COCK your wrists on the down swing? If you cocked your wrists at all you would be uncocking them on the down swing.
2. Surge referred to the #12 as a par 3 in the email blast. But, 325yds is 325yds regardless what par is.
3. If you’re 70 years old and can still hit a driver 250yds, you don’t need to be asking what kind of diver, size or otherwise, you should be hitting. I’m 55 and don’t hit it that far for that matter neither does Surge. To hit it 250yds,, you’d have to have a swing speed roughly 100mph. For 70, that is smokin”. Don’t change a thing.
#4. Hitting the ball on the toe can be a swng issue, ball placement issue at address, improper stance (ie, reaching for the ball at address but when you swing the club comes back in closer to the body), incorrect lie angle, too much toe droop of the club (improper shaft). Go see a fitter. He’ll be able to tell you what the issue is.
#5. Fast hands means holding the angle created at the top of the back swing between the shaft and forearm until the last possible moment then rotating the right forearm through impact to create a “whip” like effect that increases the club head speed.
Henry Cotton said “why use a full swing if a 3/4 one will do?”
For those who do not know Henry Cotton, he was one of the greatest golfers ever, the Dunlop 65 ball was named after one of his rounds, and to my knowledge, he may well have made this comment before J.B.Holmes was born, perhaps even before “The Surge” was born, certainly before he started playing.
“If you think of something new about golf, today, be absolutely certain, somebody said it before.”
Due to the recent development of computers and information websites, much golf information and
guidance, previously to be found in books, some written many many years ago, finds its way to the internet as the expertise of modern experts.
Ohhhh to be an expert with a smart remark in ones own right!!
Was looking at that great youtube video posted by Frankm and it explained the no-wrist-cock plus the lower body sequence very well as a source of power. This is instead of a “timing” move where you time the unhinging of the wrist to square up the clubface. Much more consistent the way The Surge and JB Holmes illustrate it.
Here is another related video from my favorite golfer of all time, Ben Hogan. He explains the sequence of lower + upper as well, and of course does a few swings. He was truly a master.
BTW – I hit three 285+ yd drives last weekend. Because there was no “timing” like I had before, the were dead straight. Hoping to get some distance back with some pointers from these posts.
Thanks for all the great lessons!
Jon
Here is the Ben Hogan video I mentioned but forgot to include in the last post. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1Z0VMemYNI&feature=related
Yo J Griffin. Point 2, if you can fly it to the green it is a par 3 no matter the length. The same for a hole that can be reached in two. 550, a drive and a hybrid for some, it is a par 4. Many touring pros play courses that have no par 5s and par is 68. Point 5, I remember the Surge saying that speed through the ball was how quick the forearms could rotate the club into the forward mitt before going up the tree to the finish. The hands would feel fast even as the forearms are moving them through the ball and into the mitt. Need more distance? Increase the arm speed!
On an unrelated point about club fitting, I am looking to get a set of irons with 4 degrees of physical bend upright and +1″ added to the length. 5-PW, GW, SW and LW. Any recomendations of brands that will bend that far and not have a tendency to rebound to standard? Thx
Stretch,
Pings came be that upright. Any forged club can be that upright. You can also get clubs built that are made of soft grade steel such as 1020, 304, or 431. Most OEM brands only offer +/- 2*.
#5. Regarding this explanation. The angle is held for as long as possible. The rotation is what creates the speed. Rotate and break early, you will not have any speed. Of course, if you swing the arms faster and rotate fast, you will increase club head speed which equates to distance.
Kevin,
As we age, we make typos too. Yes, #12 is a short par 4, which make JB’s shot all the more impressive!
Sorry, Dick. Typo. It’s a par 4, which make JB’s shot all the more impressive.
Regarding “swinging through” and not “hitting at” the ball in the downswing as was mentioned in a recent posting, I find it helpful to visualise having “a little curtain about 12 inches long” hanging vertically immediately in front of the ball ie: ———o exactly on the target line.
I then visualise “ripping” this curtain out of the path of the ball. I find it helps me greatly in accellerating “through and after the ball”, and also helps as a “line of flight image”.
Why not give it a try!!! or better still post other images etc. for this controversial element of the golf swing.
JohnOB
Sir Griffin,
I really like your answer on your definition of ‘fast hands’ above.
“5. Fast hands means holding the angle created at the top of the back swing between the shaft and forearm until the last possible moment then rotating the right forearm through impact to create a “whip” like effect that increases the club head speed.”
A couple days ago I have sent Don a special mail on this same subject. I have discovered that by swinging my hands close to my body (so that my hands pass by their address position), I was able to accelerate the club head significantly and get rid of the weak fade or slice. By swinging my hands that way (insteaqd of away from my body as it is the tendency, the club head has to naturally accelerate as it has to travel faster over a half circle (ovverhead view) to reach the ball and catch up with my hands at impact. I can hear the ‘whip’ generated and actually I have gained back my lost distance I had been complaining about with PPGS so far.
Try this, it is amazing!
Gaetan
Just got to get my two cents in here.
Don does not mention 3, 4 or even 5 par, and at the bottom of his blog you can listen to the recording of his blog.
Find 3, 4 or 5 in it and I will eat the paper!
Rod
I just love this place
That’s the longest par 3 I’ve ever heard of!
TO J. GRIFFIN.
THANKS SO FOR THAT “FAST HANDS” EXPLANATION.
MY GOLF BUDDY IS AN EX-MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL PLAYER (MINNESOTA TWINS) AND WHEN I ASK HIM HOW HE HITS HIS LONG DRIVES AND IRONS, HE HAS ALWAYS JUST SAID, “I HAVE ALWAYS HAD FAST HANDS, AT BAT OR PLAYING GOLF”
COULDN’T GET HIM TO SAY WHAT THAT WAS HOWEVER. THANKS AGAIN.
MAY I ALSO ASK YOU WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT DAVID LEE’S GRAVITY GOLF METHOD?
FLORIDA LEE
Rod,
Hope you’re hungry. It was called a par three in the email blast that was sent out. Try some ketchup. It makes it more palatable.
Just having some fun with ya brudder! Hope you know that!
Lee,
I’m glad the explanation helped. As far as my opinion of Gravity Golf, I’ll just say that I don’t like to offer opinions of other systems. First, I’m not as versed in them as I am in the PPGS or traditional rotary swings. Second, it would be like going on GMs website and discussing Ford products. I will say this about the PPGS system and you can infer what you will regarding other systems. The PPGS system is the only one that is in complete harmony with the laws of phyics and puts the least amount of stress on the body.
Surge, just a note about my success with PPGS. During this time of year playing in Atlanta is hit or miss depending on the weather. This has not been a winter for playing golf with all of the rain and cold temperatures. I devote this time to developing and refining technique: putting, chipping, and ball striking.
As mentioned in one of my previous messages, I have learned to minimize my hip turn, put the club low and into the catcher’s mitt, bump my left hip, and pull down with my left hand hard as I stand up. The club literally explodes through the ball with a repeatable trajectory and great distance. I noticed that having a little more weight on the right foot (RH) allows me to look down the hitting line and drives my right shoulder down and through. My hands finish near my left ear…a vertical swing for sure. I can shape the trajectory with a slight grip change, open or closed depending on the flight I want. I can vary the height by moving the ball forward or back ever so slightly.
This is the very best winter refining technique I have ever experienced. I have enjoyed success at my club beating the younger guys from the tips. I turned 65 last week and cannot wait for the weather to clear so I can starting playing again and get ready for our scratch tournaments. I am a PPGS swinger having converted from the Jim Hardy single plane methodology to save my back. I also played the Moe Norman swing and broke par many times. My point is that I have researched and applied several swings successfully but find the PPGS is the best from all points of discussion. Reference to the Golfing Machine above…well good luck.
Best wishes to you and the success of PPGS. It is the very best swing technology I’ve ever found good back or otherwise. My plan now is to stop tinkering and start refining. Have a great year and thank you.
Jim
Great stuff, Don’t forget JB used to hit draws but it got him in trouble because of the length when he started on tour now he hits a fade 300 + yards and that is his go to shot with the driver.
AS I READ THESE GREAT POSTS ESPECIALLY THE JB HOLMES PIECE I AM HEADING OUT THE DOOR TO AN INDOOR PRACTICE FACILITY TO CONTINUE LEARNING THE SURGES SWING. I WAS SO BAD THE LAST 2 YEARS THAT I BELIEVE I HAVE FOUND MY SALVATION IN THE SURGE. THANKS
TO J. GRIFFIN
Fully understand your position on comments about Gravity Golf by David Lee.
Again, thanks for that clear explanation of “fast hands”
You are a fine addition to Don’s website activity. Hope I can still ask you some other question in the future.
Florida Lee
Surge I just bought the dvds about 3 weeks ago and in the process of changing my swing from full turn horizontal to 3/4 vertical. I do not have a problem with the wedges, short and mid irons even the 5-6 irons but when I get to my hybrid,4 wood and driver it’s really hard to swing the club vertical and seems the trajectory of the way to high and short. If I put a tee in the grip where should it be pointing to at the end of the 3/4 backswing? It seems the woods need a little more horizontal plane. Paul Harington
I was working shotlink on the par 5 ninth hole at the San Diego Open last week end when JB landed his second shot ten feet from the pin. Oh, the hole was playing 630 yards.
Most players were landing their 3rd shot near the pin and the ball would spin back down near the front edge of the green.
JB’s eagle putt must have hit a small lip on the cup because it stopped at the hole and actually moved back a fraction. Pretty amazing golf!
WOW! Don, I purchased your videos a week or so ago. I watched them all, swung a club in my basement, went to the range once, and played yesterday. I cannot believe how solidly and consistently I struck the ball. What a great feeling! I think the idea of putting the club in the catcher’s mitt on the other side of the swing, completes the whole swing, and, for me, is what makes it work. Why am I just hearing about this? I’ve been playing golf for 30 years.
If you close the angle of the club shaft and left hand ( for righties) on the downswing you are increasing you wrist cock.Jim Mclean did a piece on this in golf digest,using Sergio as a model.This is a very advanced move,which increases lag,but requires very fast hands to get to the proper impact position.You also have to make a lateral/rotational to the left,placing the handle even close to the target.Not a way to start out and even debatable if it’s in the best interest of a pro. There is a move away from having the swing pre-set and changes taking place that can lead to great shots one time and bad the next.Plus it takes lost of practice.
Can someone help me please with a few suggestions;
After practising & hitting balls 3 times this week using the PPGS stance & 3/4 swing this week (hitting the golf ball very pure & straight) i played club compitition yeaterday & toward the end of my round my old swing & golf shots started to predominate again ie.weak fades & a real feeling of weight remaining on my Trail (back) side of my body (legs/hips/back shoulder)-it is my real swing & ball strike destroyer.
My playing partner whom plays of a 4 Hcap & is a beautiful striker of a golf ball (straight balls,smooth swing with a full T finish always balanced-he hits his Driver straight 250m plus- & ive been with him when he has driven the occassional 320m Par 4 & yes we are metric in Australia) remarked to me that i should concentrate more on increasing my swing speed NOT from the beginning of my downswing (which he says is probably causing my stayling on the Trail back foot)side) but more approaching the ball & increasing thro to the finish-so i gues this means making a smooth backswing & change into the downswing with the bump increasing swing speed pre impact thro to a face?chest on (belt buckle to target) T finish.
Is my playing partner on the right track & what would be also helpful to make me swing from the top “in sequence” as i now think my real problenm for weak fades is that i am aggressively trying to hit the shot from the top of my backswing way too early & fast with my Trail(back) hand in the downswin ie.casting??? Y/N .
Greatly appreciate any feedback as on the weekend i am playing Penants Golf (club v club) & hoping i can improve on this..
to Mark Plunkett:
I believe that you ‘problem analysis” is correct.
Try this and see if it helps — as you finish the “up the tree” move, try to start the forward swing with a push from the region of the Big toe-Ball of foot on your trailing foot to create the “forward bump” and start the forward swing.
Keep hitting them STRAIGHT and LONG
Amos
Surge, I have been using your golf swing tips and I am playing my best golf tee to green.
I don’t suppose you could give me some tips on putting I am currently averaging 35 putts a round.
I am playing to a 14 handicap and am 52 years old.
Thanks again
Greg.
For more details on JB Holmes’ swing, I would like to refer you to the Golf Digest, Sept. 09 edition. JB Holmes’swing sequence is fully described on page 26, by Matt Killen, JB’s swing coach.
On the second paragraph, you can read:
“He (JB) does something we don’t see from many players” says his swing coach Matt Killen. “He doesn’t cock his wrists much on the backswing. He does it during the downswing, and this creates tremendous clubhead speed because he produces so much lag and forward shaft lean before impact…”
Now if you look at every picture of JB’swing sequence, No JB does not cock his wrists in the backswing. In fact we can see just about the 135° (forearm to club angle) at the top of the backswing… so same position as at address. But as his left forearm reaches parallel on the downswing, JB is holding the club reaching 90° angle between his left forearm and club like everyone else. This is where he creates that lag everyone uses. Without that lag, considerable distance would be lost.
JB does not qualify as a pure PPGS swinger. But JB’s wrists remain nice and flat at the way and he sure have strong and fast hands.
gaetan
You guys talking about the wrist cock are correct. It is commonly referred to in golf lingo as a “down-cock” and is a well-known way to generate more speed. …it is more technically an “in-cock” in that the shaft of the club gets closer to center on the downswing, which can be used to create more speed (whip) through the ball. Mr. Holmes’ grip is likely just longer on the club, a little bit more toward the palms, and a little less in the fingers than most players, which gives the appearance of less wrist cock, even though the wrists are cocking. Because of the longer grip on the club, it is more difficult to see. That longer grip creates a bigger arc, and can also help with consistency. Apart from his long grip, which gives the appearance of less wrist cock, his swing is fairly long. Daly’s swing goes back farther because he has more of a relaxed bend in his left leg, which drops his left side a little bit during the backswing, and because he has more set in his wrists, mostly due to allowing the left wrist to cup. Those two components, in my opinion, are the biggest contributors to Daly’s long swing. Daly lets that left leg bend and collapse right at the start of his swing. Daly also allows his left arm to bend, but he does that without losing too much of the pull of the clubhead and losing “connection.” When the left arm bends, it adds another lever to the swing, which can most definitly be used to generate more speed, if it is done in a way that does not “collapse” the swing at the top. I.e., there is still a healthy pull of the clubhead back around the body, so that when the body begins to turn through, the arms and club will come along with them. Doing that, however, can give you left elbow injuries, if you are not careful, and can also make solid and consistent contact a more difficult task to accomplish without a lot of practice. Other than those relatively minor differences, that I can see, the two swings are fairly similar, in terms of effective length, and shape of the arc. At least that is what I see when I compare them. Ok now you guys that don’t like me can call for me to to jump off a cliff again, if you want