Friday, July 30, 2010
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Take a Stance

Written by dontrahan on February 1, 2010 — View Comments

Note from the Surge: Travel day today, so I’m using a “page” from my old tips booklet on Stance. These illustrations are only meant as a general reference. Soon we’ll be using photos when we can.

stance a
Stance:
Width…shoulder side, inside of feet to outside
edge of shoulders. Building Effect (Illustration
A) vs. Eiffel Tower (Illustration B). Building Effect
has legs in line and in balance with the hips; joined
in the hip sockets. Eiffel Tower has the legs
angled into the hip socket with pressure of opposing/
contradicting angles caused by feet
wider than shoulders.
Premise: Narrow feet—wide knees—both feet
slightly flared out, right foot 5 to 10 degrees…
left foot 10 to 15 degrees.

Weight Distribution:
1. Pre-loaded/60%+ heavy right foot.
2. Front to back on feet = centered over
arches/insteps.
3. Wide knees/over ankles/outward pressure…
Ride the skinny horse.

Reasons:
1. Allows external rotation of the knees,
always moving together in the same direction
at the same time.
2. Allows instantaneous load over and onto a
flexed right leg (like pitching).
3. Right hip socket; knee and foot are in a
straight line = perfect load.
NOTE: Should feel like you sit or sink over and onto a
flexed right leg because when you load, the leg receives
your weight. You feel the load on the thigh and hamstring,
the big leg muscles.
KEY: Stance Width-Changes as club gets longer,
Wedge-Outside edge of both feet under outside
edge of shoulders. Driver-Center of right foot
under outside edge of right shoulder-inside
edge of left foot under outside edge of shoulder.
Maximum change is thus 3-4 inches from
wedge thru driver and maintains look of Building
Effect.
NOTE: 9 iron – driver: Center of right foot is under outside
edge of right shoulder for all shot/clubs. It is only the left
foot that moves to change stance width.

I’ll be off the road tomorrow. For those in the U.S. who have ice on the roads instead of in a glass in front of the fireplace, I know how it feels. Drive carefully!

The Surge!

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Posted in Golf Instruction
  • Herbert Davis
    Don I had understood that the golf instruction that I purchased for $80 would be sent to me in DVD's so that I could watch them anytime. What have I purchased?
    And in what form? I would like a answer ASAP.
    Herbert Davis
    417 W. Capitol Ave
    Pierre, SD 57501
  • Kevin McCarthy
    Mark, I wanted to respond that I started having a problem with my driver producing a slice and not being able to fully rotate through the swing. I tried altering my grip, ball position, and stance to determine the cause. Finally, I realized that the club at the top of the swing was in too close to my head meaning that I had collapsed my left arm too much. When your takeaway is longer back to the mitt, and then up the tree, the club will be away from your head at the 12:00 position. You will feel the extension and then the ability to pull the club down the tree and into the strong t finish. As an experiment, get into your stance and swing your arms by collapsing the left arm at the top, the club being closer to your head, and you will feel a lack of power and inability to finish the swing with a full rotation. You typically compensate with leaving the club face open at impact with no rotation of your arms. Then try with a full extension of the club back to the mitt and up, and you should feel the difference immediately.
  • jimsha
    to Ronnie McCurry,

    Just down in Charlotte at the end of '09 for a week. Actually just south in Fort Mill SC. Stayed with my brother-in-law who lives around the corner forn Carowinds park. We golfed some nice courses, Charlotte Links, Springfield, Reniasonse, and a few other just a little south on I-77. All nice courses. The weather was in the 40's but dry. I was told that it had rained quite a bit prior to my coming down so the courses were still a little wet, but all in all a heck of a lot better than what we had here in NY. He tells me that its been in the 20's with some snow. Looking forward to going back for the Quail Hollow Champ. which I was able to attend last year, even followed Sean O'Hair for a while. Anyway love it down there and may even make the move some time in the future.
  • Ray,
    I think the way you approach set up is a very individual thing. I do it quite different. I come to the ball from the left side starting from behind the ball once I have picked in intermediary target, something about 18" to 2 ft in front of the ball that is now my aiming targer. I step in with my right foot and set the club head square to the targer line then bring in the left foot. I adjust is need be but usually I have a feel for where the right foot is going by the length of club that I have. At this point it really doesn't make a difference where your weight is. As long as you PLHR before back swing you're ok. To those who this may be new to I can see that it has to be a thought process as part of the set up. I've set up heavy right for years even before using the PPGS system. About the only thing I had to do differently from my normal golf swing was bow my knees. I've always been verticle in my swing and pretty much 3/4 shoulder turn. Once you get in your stance and you feel comfortable, just put the load on the right side and you're done.
  • Ray Johnson
    I think I understand what your saying in all this now and thanks for your patience. The step I was referring to is from the start of set-up. If you begin with your feet together and the ball in the center of your stance, you take a small step to the lead side or left if you're right handed to establish the ball position relative to the length of club in your hands, and then move the trailing foot or right foot if you're right handed to the right to establish the width of stance. During this move or step as I call it, most of the weight is automatically transferred to that side. Do you recommend following this method or is there a preferred way to approach this?
  • Ray,
    I think you've overlooked the simplistic part of the set up. The longer the club, the wider the stance. Period. The longer the club, the more the ball is move toward the front foot so as to not hit the ball with an open club face. The longer club has to travel further to return to square without consciously manipulating the hands. What step are you referring to? You're taking a stance, not stepping. With the right foot always in the same spot you are always able to turn the same. If you were to move the right foot back further, it actually makes getting the weigh on the right side more difficult. To prove this, take the widest stance you can and see if you can get your weight over onto the right foot. You can't. So, if your right foot stays just slightly outside or under right shoulder, you preload the weight the same every time.
  • Ray Johnson
    Thanks for your response to my question on stance J, but I guess I thought this whole exercise was with the idea of changing your stance in relation to the ball for various clubs. If the ball does not remain static then the whole exercise seems lost on me. As far as preloading the weight on the back foot, it seems to me to be automatic if you step that foot back, however if you step forward your weight always goes to that direction and you must make a consious effort to move the weight back.
    I'm not trying to be contrary here, just missing something somewhere on all this.
  • Mark,
    If you want a ball that reduces side spin that would be the Bridgestone e6+. I play this ball myself.

    What ball is played is really determined by club head speed and the performance that you want. You talk about backing up a ball. Why would want to do that? I have never seen any benefit in having a ball hit the green and then spin backwards. Nobody can control how far it spins back but you can control how far you hit it. So, if I have 90 yards to the pin, hit it 90 yards. Much rather do that than to hit it 92 yards and hope it only spins back 6 feet just but see it spin back 15 feet.

    Generally speaking, the tour caliber balls are designed for higher club head speeds. By higher I'm talking 95+mph for balls like the Pro V1, Bridgestone B330S, Srixon ZURS, etc. The Pro ViX, Bridgestone B330, Srixon ZUR are for 105+ mph club head speed. This does not mean that lower club head speeds can't play these afore mentioned balls but they will not get as much yardage from them as they could be getting from softer cover/softer core balls.

    As for the shot that hits, skips once or twice and stops, you've got to be able to really pinch the ball with a descending stroke to put the spin on the ball and yes, those tour balls will pull that shot off easier. But, do you sacrifice all the rest of the game just to be able to hit that one shot? I vote for chip the shot and let it roll. You can control that shot a lot easier.
  • Alan S,
    Since you asked I'll answer. If you are lifting your front heel then you are either turning too much or you are altering the spine angle. There is no reason for the heel to come up and I think it opens up things for other negative consequences.

    I'll mention for you and Mark and others that have a problem getting the transition feeling to remember the skip the rock drill. Hopefully at some point you have done this. If you are going to skip the rock on the pond, you take the arm back and before the arm starts forward, your hips move in the direction that you are going to throw and then the arms comes under and through. This has two aspects of the swing in it. The bump and then the movement of the shoulder down and under rather than out and over. When you throw the rock you don't even think about what you do. You just do it. For some reason golfers seem to not have the same "freedom" in their swing. So, let me try a suggestion which will be a reversal of what should happen. I've done this with students and have had success with it. Since you have trouble with starting the downswing with the bump which starts the arms falling, try letting the arms fall first. In other words, when you get to the top of the back swing let the arms start moving downward first and see if that makes the left hip move forward just a bit. The main issue here is that some many golfers start their down swing with ROTATION of the shoulders around. This is the over the top move. Let me know if this helps at all.
  • The Surge!
    To Ken,

    You ask about Teacher Certification. The program is quite close to complete and ready to fly. The holdup is that we decided that we needed an on line version especially for professionals in foreign countries to become certified without having to attend a live program here in the US with me. Plus. even those who attend a live program with me will take their certification test on line back home as as well as other aspects of the certification program.

    One last aspect is we are also setting up the Certified Teacher/Instructors section for the website so golfers everywhere can check for certified instructors in their state or country. These two final pieces of the program have to be completed before launch and hopefully that will be soon.

    The Surge!
  • Owen Middleton
    Many years ago Peter Thompson, Australia's 5 time British Open winner was asked why he had not written a golf book. Peter replied, "it would only be 3 pages and it would be all about the address!"
    That's how important Thompson sees the address. The Surge is on the money stressing the importance of the address position including all it's components which includes the grip. I started coaching my son-in law last November. He got a little upset when I started him only addressing the ball, over and over again. I took him to the first tee of our local public course and watched 3 groups hit off, pointing out the poor address and aim of the players. The resulting shots helped reinforce my point. Good address = good aim resulting in good to acceptable golf shots.
  • Eric R
    I got back from hitting range balls with just my 5 iron to work on my transition. For me I made the most solid contact and hit it straighter with just thinking to get the club in the mit and up the tree and then taking the club straight back down the tree and through to the t-finish. My hips seem to just take care of themselves. I am still hitting right but I think my clubs are not fit right right. I will find this out on Friday. Thanks everyone for the their thoughts on the transition.
  • Gene
    Surge I have been reading alot of the different golf magazines and I have come to the realization that so many of them are really not helpful to the PPGS way of playing golf and I am in the process of cancelling my subscriptions. I have been using the PPGS system and am starting to enjoy golf alot more and my scores are going down.
  • Don, J. Griffin, and/or anybody else who would like to chime in.

    I have been working on this swing for several months and, like many, have no problem with the irons. Fairway woods and driver have been much more "challenging". I was swinging a club today and may have found something that seems to "feel" much better with the long stuff. As I took my stance, knees wide, feet flaired, weight heavy right and made a practice swing, for some reason I got off my front foot slightly. Heel maybe just an eighth off the ground. To start the swing I planted the heel and probably for the first time felt "the bump" and got my weight to the left side. I have never heard anyone do this with the PPGS set up but it is common with the left knee fold right rotary swing. Any thoughts? Positive or negative.
  • tip
    ROOBERT , THANKS FOR YOUR COMMENT ABOUT THE RIGHT FOOT . I THINK I FOUND OUT WHY I SOMETIMES HIT THE DREADED HOOK.IVE BEEN MOVING MY RIGHT FOOT TO THE RIGHT CAUSING ME TO STAY BACK.DOES THI SOUND LIKE ITS POSSIBLE, THANKS
  • Ronnie McCurry
    Griffin, the weather here in Charlotte is evil. I had a chance last week to practice the PPGS and it is coming around. If I was gay I would kiss the Surge. It may carrry me on a little further in my rapidly fading career. I certainly wish I could come down for a fitting, however I am a poor boy on disability with limited funds. I just wish I had a radar gun to check the mph on my driver and irons.
  • Ronnie McCurry
    Yeah, J I was looking at the studies done with dynacraft/appollo way back and how they determined the DSFI. Very interesting reading how they came from the hickory shaft to now. I have always thought that brand clubs off the rack were not fittied properly for us common Joe's. I know I swing the driver harder then my irons and I also know there is a difference from one iron to the other depending on the shaft length and tipping. That is why people if they would investigate this would see the need to go to a real clubfitter like yourself. Good plug, huh? I guess the checks in the mail.
  • Ronnie,
    Close but not quite there. The factor becomes the tempo of the driver and how they load and where they load the shaft. Flex is not the only factor to consider as the real consideration is the tip section of the shaft. For example, Don and I have the same amount of turn, but his tempo is .8 and mine is 1.2. We don't play the same shaft.
  • Ronnie McCurry
    In reference to the 3/4 swing the golfer who takes the club back to less then parallel as often happens with age, requires a stiffer shaft because it does not have time to recover as it would if the golfer were more flexible as most tour players do including DJ.
  • Larry
    Don: Since you're into Parisian imagery (i.e. the Eiffel Tower - for an incorrect knees position) why not employ the Arc de Triumphe to indicate the preferred wide knees (skinny horse) over the feet position? Keep up your terrific daily blogs.
    Best regards, Larry
  • Ron from KC,
    Please explain lazy right hand. If you snap the ball, I'd see that as active and not lazy. Lazy to me would mean the club stay open and you hit shots to the right. Clarify and I'll try to help.
  • Ray Johnson,
    It would mean the ball would be moving back in the stance if you left it where it was. As you move the left foot forward, the longer the club, the more the ball gets moved toward the front foot. Consider this, if you keep moving the back foot out, how do you preload to that side at set up?
  • Ray Johnson
    In your last article on "Take a stance" you left this NOTE:

    9 iron – driver: Center of right foot is under outside
    edge of right shoulder for all shot/clubs. It is only the left
    foot that moves to change stance width.

    Although most systems teach a slightly wider stance as the clubs get longer, they do this by dropping their back foot further back, not their front foot forward. Wouldn't this have the effect of moving the ball back in your stance with the driver, when you normally would move it a bit forward since this is the club that is being struck from a tee and should be on a bit of an upswing? This would seem fine if you were trying to promote a lower ball flight, as into a wind, but for normal shots off the tee I find the information a bit contrary. Could you explain your reasoning?
  • Steve Kindree
    Surge:

    Up here in Canada it is too cold to be out swinging, but your daily emails and the fact that today is Groundhog day, reminds me that it will not be too much longer until the season is upon us again.
    Your recent email where you had a series of Still pictures showing your swing was great. It allowed me to look where your knees, hips, arms, etc were in each of the pictures. You actually have to look at each body part in its own turn and then put the full visual picture together. Very helpful. A front and side view would even be more helpful.
    I also viewed DJ's (and yours) video on Driving. Again if you could put a series of still shots together (from front and side) of DJ's swing with the driver, this would be of great assistance to me

    Enjoying the daily emails

    Regards

    Steve Kindree
  • I do not understand this at all! Please eliminate the shorthand and explain what this is all about.
  • Jim Gall
    As a point of clarification: I have a hard time visualizing putting the clun into the catchers' mit with the sketch showing the mit straight at the tree. When you rutn in your back swing toward the tor line, technically, the mit would have to be turned outward to catch the club head ( sort of at a 45 degree angle, Then up the tree. My olly real pronlem is that I tend to bring the club back and up in one curved move instead of sort of a 2 piece, angled continuous back and then up move and I'm not sure which is correct? Please, someone who knows, for sure, tell me which is correct.
  • Jim Gall
    Surge,
    Thanks for the sketches. They help. My only critique. Emphasise that sketch A is the way, NOT sketch B! (I hope I'm right). For those who don't get it or don't want to, its your loss and you don't need to discourage those who are getting it with your negativity. Thanks again Surge for what you do.
    Jim Gall
  • PPGS GUYS,

    THE TRANSITION: for all of you that had the more classic type swing of Bobby Jones or Payne Stewart, there is nothing different about it. Don't try to make it more difficult. Eric R.: What you described is a great transition.

    Marc: If you've always had trouble getting over to the front side, please check two things. #1. Make sure your stance is not too wide. This makes it more difficult to transition the weight to the front foot. Try taking practice swings with your feet together and get the balance. Then seperate the feet maybe a foot. Start with the weight more on your back foot and swing and get over to the front and finish up on the back toe. When you can do this 10 times successfully, then widen the stance just a bit and go through it again. Hopefully you will get the feel of this. If not you could always become the next Bubba Watson (PGA TOUR PRO, who is also left handed). He stays on his left side too.

    For those who come from a more Ben Hogan swing where the club is flatter and you had more turn in hips and shoulders, you are now restricting the hips in the back swing and the transition is more of a slight bump and turn then stop as you turn onto the front side.
  • Jeff Mann
    Two years ago I spent mega-bucks at an indoor training facility that video's you, then attempts to change your swing to match a touring pro. My handicap went from a 3 back up to an 11. It was so enlightening to discover that my old swing was much like the PPGS swing and it may not have been the "purtyest", but it worked for me. Attempting to erase all the bad JU JU that they put in my head will take some time, but after a month of indoor swinging and a couple of outdoor sessions in 35 degree weather my draw is back. I just have to remember to keep my hands out of the shot and they go straight. Wednesday starts a week in Florida on an annual golf trip to warmer climate. I cant wait. Thanks for your daily blog.
  • Abbey Densmore
    Hi Surge: I really appreciate your approach, and am counting on it to reenew my interest in the game. My comment (since you asked)... as a leftie, I need to 'opposite' all the right/left instructions... would it be possible to address this ... not easy I know, but as a thought..."leading arm' or similar.

    But if nothing can be done... my thanks still go to you.

    All the best.
  • Eric R
    This is great advice and discussion guys. I have been learning the PPGS with great success. However, the transition is the hardest for me to get down in the PPGS. The movement and sequence. I think this is due to my old swing where my hips would stay centered and just rotate through with a little bit of lateral movement. I feel that I need to be more aggresive with my lateral movement to get my weight over my left foot (I am right handed) and get to the T-finish. All the comments here have given me some thoughts to try during the swing and see which one works for me. From following this blog it seems that different swing thoughts will work for different people. PPGS swingers will have the same swing but think of different things during the setup, swing and finish, or maybe it would be better not to think at all and just swing the stinkin club.
  • HARRY THOMSON
    what do you think of my idea of making golf shoes with small adjustments in the insole which can help with the set up that most golfers have problems with as I have been experimenting with this idea for several months with my students with great success and I am presently co operating with a shoe manufacturer as to how we will market this idea.
    I am a PGA Professional so have studied this situation in great detail and think I have found a great way to help golfers get into the natural set up without too much thinking to do which all golfers really appreciate..................any comments on this idea surge ?
  • Roy Reed
    Just wanted to say "thank you" to the Surge and those that post so much useful information and help on this great golf blog. The PPGS really works - just practice, practice and practice some more. I have a small card that I carry on my golf cart and it gives me some gentle reminders as I play each round; here is what it says:

    SET UP AND ALIGNMENT
    WE NEED TO DO!
    NOSE, HIPS, KNEES,
    MOVE THOSE TOES TOO!

    TAKE THAT CLUB BACK
    TO THE CATCHER'S MIT;
    THEN STRAIGHT UP THE TREE,
    BUT DON'T YOU QUIT!

    BACK DOWN TO THE BALL,
    SWING SMOOTH AND FAST;
    KEEP THE CLUB MOVING,
    WOW, WHAT A BLAST!

    POP UP TO THE TARGET,
    AS FAST AS YOU CAN;
    AND FINISH IN A "T",
    THAT'S IT, MY MAN!!!

    Hit em long and straight, have positive thoughts and have FUN golfing. R2
  • Greg Pastic
    Don, why not call the PPGS stance "The Golden Gate Bridge." It's support beams (the legs) stand wide and tall. It's a perfect image versus the Eiffel Tower. And it excites the mind more than "The Building Effect" don't you agree?

    Thanks for all the great tips. My golf swing has improved in so many ways thanks to your method. I feel like I have so much more easy power
  • Ken
    Mark, something that has helped me with beginning my downswing is something that you actually do in your backswing. Just concentrate on on "finishing" your backswing. Get to the top and feel like you almost stop. Then just think about dropping your right shoulder and elbow into your right front pocket. This might help as I believe that this thought helps with tempo and makes the transition less of a physical effort.

    Rod, if your idea is to build a wedge on the sole of the golf shoe (thus preventing sliding) it has already been done. I believe that it was ruled illegal (against the rules) as you are artificially building a stance. Just thought I'd mention it. If this isn't your idea then I wish you luck with your invention.
  • Marc Jartman
    Hello Don,

    I'm a first time responder and very much appreciate the ten lessons/tips.

    Regarding the back to basics drill on stance I assume that when you say that the width between the right foot and left foot changes as the length of club increases that you mean the feet get WIDER apart as length of club increases. Am I correct could it be the other way around?

    I look forward to seeing your teaching network expand.

    Many thanks for the advice AND the reasoning that goes with it.

    Best regards,

    Marc.
  • JohnOB,
    Yes to all points. I am also Don's fitter and do the work on his clubs. I was also recently certified as a PPGS instructor.
  • JohnOB
    J. Griffin

    You respond (or comment on) a lot of postings here (including one or two of mine which I appreciate). You seem to have a comprehensive knowledge of the game, and I would like to know if you are a Golf Professional or member of the PPGS team.

    Your reply to Mark above, ie; Question #2 is very clear and informative indeed, and has also answered a similar gravity uncertainty I had experienced. Good shooting...2 birds with 1 shot, and I guess that the retriever wil come up with a few more.

    JohnOB
  • Rod
    Don,

    I have an idea for a new golf shoe, I will share it with you if I can do it privately.

    I would like to know what you think of it.

    Rod
  • Rod
    Surge,

    I am having a real problem with the 'swing up to the T finish. I can get back to the 3/4 swing with the the club vertical but I cannot make the swing through along the target line. When I first started the PPGS swing all was well. I was hitting them longer and straighter. My wife and I have double checked my alignment and I am square and parallel but something is causing me to cut across the target line. We line up clubs to check alignment and ball placement, check the grip, and the triangle but I still cannot swing through correctly. Any suggestions? Thanks, Rod
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