The PPGS is all about a setup and swing that is body friendly and thus reduces stress and strain on the body. Lee, in his question below, brings up a good point about the PPGS resembling the swing of long ago that finished in a reverse pivot or C as it was called back then. He also brings up the point of this causing him to get a sore back. Let’s see what Lee says and then I will answer his question.
LEE GRAY says:
I HAD A STRAIGHT BACK (UP A TREE) BACK SWING YEARS AGO AND I DEVELOPED A SORE BACK WITH REVERSE PIVOTING. THIS TAKEAWAY SEEMS SIMULAR IN THIS COURSE. HOW DOES THIS DIFFER?
The Surge says:
Back in the 1970s and 80s, and until the early 90s when the X – Factor swing, now referred to as the Rotational Swing, came into vogue, the swing of choice taught by most instructors was a very vertical swing and had many similarities to the PPGS. It called for relatively straight back takeaway, a 90 degree shoulder turn and extremely high hands at the top of the backswing. The finish was square to the target and was suppose to be relatively erect, like the T-Finish of the PPGS. The model for this swing would look almost exactly like the swing of Davis Love when he came out on Tour in 1985.
There was also another teaching philosophy in vogue at this time that liked keeping the arms and elbows close to the body in both the backswing and the finish. Tucking the back elbow in the backswing to avoid the “Flying Back Elbow” was a major cause of not being able to keep a relatively straight front arm. Keeping the front elbow close and tucked in the follow through and finish caused the torso to be pushed backwards in the upswing, as the torso turned, squaring up to the target. This backward push caused the reverse C Pivot and a lot of back pain.
The first thing we have to look at and discuss in reference to the Reverse C Pivot and back pain is the width of stance. Back then, as is still now taught in most instruction, the recommendation of the width of stance is much wider and the legs look triangular. This differs from the narrower stance knees in line, described as “riding a skinny horse” look, taught in the PPGS setup. For example, the desired width stated for the 5 iron in modern instruction is what is recommended for the driver in the PPGS.
The PPGS master setup position is defined as wide knees with outward pressure and feet shoulder wide. We teach the back foot is under the back shoulder for all clubs and not outside of it. Also, the foot and knee are in line under the hip and shoulder. Wider feet and triangular angled legs caused the torso to be pushed backwards in the weight transfer in the backswing. That caused the reverse C pivot which increased stress on the lower back leading to pain.
So, as Lee states, the in-the-mitt-takeaway and vertical lift up the tree of the PPGS is quite similar to that earlier swing he used. The key to remember here is that the emphasis of instruction of that time, like the PPGS swing, was on vertical and high hands at the top of the backswing. As long as high hands are emphasized, the shoulders likely turn less than 90 degrees. Turning to 90 or more causes the arms to be pulled downward. So, as long as high hands were the requirement, less shoulder turn was overlooked in the backswing.
The finish was another issue. Many instructors wanted the hips to turn faster and the arms to swing up and over the shoulder, folding down quickly, which could cause enough momentum to severely tilt the torso and spine into the reverse C pivot when the shift hit the angled front leg. Then add to that those who taught tucking the elbows both in the backswing and finish and there were a lot of reverse C finishes and sore backs.
The PPG setup and swing is based 100% on physics and physiology, science and simplicity. The narrower feet and “riding the skinny horse” legs in line setup are the foundation for a simple, stable and dynamically balanced swing. The limited turn, 3/4 backswing and the swinging up and stand up to the T – Finish, square to the target, eliminates the reverse C pivot and the back problems.
The Surge!
Tell me what you're thinking... and what part of the golf swing, or this great game... you'd like to know more about. If you want your pic to show with your comment, go get a 
Hello Don,
I just want to say you are a class act!!
While others are using Tiger in there posts, you have stuck to business!
Rod
Also Don,
Please check out this site, it might give you some ideas for the future.
performaxgolf.com
Rod
Don you were taliking about wearing magnets which I do, What about the the Hologram wrist bands and stick on dots that are out now. Would love to hear your input. Would also like to know how to get your Peak Performance Shot Tracker
12/13/09
Looking forward to your comments
John Peeples,
I have not heard about hologram wrist bands and stick on dots until just now in your blog so I cannot comment on them.
But, thanks for the info. I will look into them,as I always keep an open mind searching for info and answers for anything good that works and can help us swing better as well as feel better.
The Peak Performance Shot Tracker is inside the Inner Circle membership club. I believe there is a special membership offer on the main page you can check out or customer service can help.
The Surge!
To Rod Reynolds,
I just checked out Performaxgolf.com. I am extremely skeptical of any swing theory or aids that claims to add 70 yards. If I added 70 yards I would be driving well over 300 yard and there is no swing move or club that can give me that even with a hurricane blowing at my back. For me and I feel for anyone else to believe that I or they can add 70 yards would be absurd. Heck, JB Holmes, John Daly, Bubba Watson, Justin Johnson and other long hitters on the PGA Tour would be driving almost 400 yards on a regular basis. Not going to happen.
Also, This swing concept involves a wide stance and bigger shoulder turn and finish. I can’t buy into that as it defies physics and human physiology. And, let us not forget the wide stance and big turn are extremely stressful on the back and can lead to pain and injury.
So, with that said, I am skeptical and as I always say, if you try it and it works use it. If it doesn’t work abandon it. For this I would think it will not work for anyone who is not extremely strong and fit and if they did get added distance it would not reach 70 yards. I am also confident that even if one did get longer it would not in a way shape or form produce consistent drives and shots as solid and straight and controlled as with the PPGS.
The Surge!
Don,
Several times I have sent an email requesting information on DVD availability started back in November when you had the 19.95 special, I did not want downloads. No one in your organization bothered to reply. I even tried the phone number and all I got was a fax tone. What gives? Are you really interested in contacting people who ask questions?
Kevin
I am working through your PPGS course and I am finally seeing improvement. So far I’m happy with the results.
David
Surge: I took the “survey” yesterday and when trying to access the video the button to allow viewing kept returning to the starting point. After several tries with the same results I called it a day. What gives? Anyone else out there have the same problem?
to Ray Gawlak:
YES! I had the same experience
Amos
I’ve been working on the ppgs – hitting the ball but have developed a cut/slice, divot is from outside in. I feel like I’m breaking my wrist and coming to the ball with the club face open. Can you give me a tip.
Re: Survey
Guys,
Same thing happened to me but if you’ll go ahead and access the members page you can access the blue print from there.
I had the same problem Kevin Bradley has. No DVD’s available !!
Re: Survey
Morris Nedilski :
Same thing happened to me but if you’ll go ahead and access the members page you can access the blue print from there.
shailesh
Surge, good news! I broke 40 for 9 holes TODAY and couldn’t be more excited about my future golfing with the ppgs. 6 pars and three bogies for a 39 I normally shoot around 43-45 for an 18 of between 85-92. I know feel breaking 80 is within reach.I was inspired to make a jump in progress after viewing the Jr. blueprint for golf found in the members area under “products”. Again I strongly advice all who haven’t seen it to go there asap. Thanks Surge! It just all started coming together today after several weeks of leveling off. Anyone strugling out there to “get it”‘ don’t give up, it will come if you keep looking at and then practicing the entire system.
I have been thinking about buying into the PPGS, but many recent posts indicate that once you buy, you say Bye Bye……..
Hey Surge,
I just purchased your videos a few days back. My first day to actually hit the range was today. What I came to figure out is it’s very difficult to stop my backswing at a vertical point after 20 plus years of a parallel swing plane. Can you give me some tips on stopping at a vertical plane? I felt at times I was stopping vertical but the video i took shows me at parallel.
Please advise
John,
The verticalplane is the move of lifting the arms as you make a 3/4 limited turn back swing and is not indicative of the position of the shaft. The more you lift and the longer the club the more horizontal it will be. However, a note of caution. Make sure you are not regripping at the top. A good way to check this is to look at your golf gloves. If they wear heavily in the heel pad then you more than likely are a regripper which gives the illusion of the club being more to parrallel than it actually is. Turn your shoulders as much as it takes to get the club head in the mit then lift to the top while keeping a firm grip. Hope this helps.
Your reply to me.
I have no problem with you saying cutting off your driver didn’t work for you. Remember I also said that if you do you will likely need to add some lead tape to make it heavier to make up for the shorter length. DId you add tape? Likely not.
We had 5 students at our golf school who cut their drivers down and all loved it. And the blogs have numerous comments from those who cut down their drivers with much success.
Just because cutting off your driver didn’t work and magnetic bracelets didn’t work for you is no reason to boldly denounce them as wrong for everyone. Go read the ion and magnetic bracelet article again and note that I said they work for me and many others as many blogs have confirmed. I said maybe they actually work or maybe they are voodoo or hocus pocus. But if wearing them gives one relief, then that is good for them.
Just because cutting down your driver and magnetic bracelets did not work for you is no reason and is blatantly reckless to denounce both as worthless to everyone in light of the success so many have had and confirmed.
The Surge!
I say this rather sheepishly. The driver I cut down had removable weights. I bought some heavier ones and increased the weight in the middle. That was a significant change for the good. As far as the bracelet. I was disappointed because I thought I could help my stepdad. I should have investigated this further. I am wearing mine. Sorry
I have made some nasty comments here. I could not grasp the concept of the PPGS and was angry. I recently decided to remove one of my garage doors and replace it with an entrance door. Yesterday I was watching golf in the garage and fooling around under my carport swinging and 8 iron. I turned and saw my reflection in the glass of the new door. I was shocked. At address I was bending to far at the waist and knees. I was then using a roundhouse swing more like baseball. I see why I keep hurting my back. I then got in the proper PPGS address and the swing was effortless. I know why I was chunking and skulling. Sometimes a picture is worth a thousand words.
Thanks Surge
Don — do you have a school or in-person teaching facility in SC (or somewhere else warmer than the NE)? If so, where and when and how much? Many thanks,
JC
do you have a facilty in or around Orlando? i always prefer to get a phisical lesson instead of virtual.
Don – Are the alignment arrows available for purchase anywhere? I viewed your junior golf clinic videos and you stated each one of them had a set of the alignment arrows. Thanks, Ted
Hi Don,
I became a member this Fall. I went through all of the videos and began practicing the swing and had to really work at shortening the backswing and T finish. Initially my short to mid irons improved dramatically. I was pulling and drawing my irons putting me 10 to 30 yards left of target which means I would miss the greens more often than not. With the new swing my iron shots are right on about 90% of the time. I will still pull one every once in a while but now I know why. The driver has been more of a challenge but the last two sessions at the driving range I hit over 80% down the middle. When I miss it is a push right. I have not lost distance with the new swing. Last time out I shot an 80, which is about a 14 shot improvement.
Golf is so much more fun hitting fairways and greens. I will get out on the weekends during the winter as much as possible, weather permitting, but I am really looking forward to Spring. I can’t tell you how much I appreciate your instruction, it has made the game so much more fun and rewarding. Funny thing is I don’t know how I came across the website but I am glad I did.
Thank you
In response to the many posts I have seen here concerning the loss of distance or those who never had it, I have to chuckle a little to how gullible we can all be at times. In my opinion, the greatest man to ever play the game; Jack Nicklaus taught that “golf is a thousand times more a game of precision than power” and all it seems anyone wants to do nowadays is hit the ball further somehow thinking that this is going to make them a better golfer and lower their scores.
I used to play golf with a man in his 60’s back when I was still in my 30’s and I could outdrive him by 90 yards but guess who always turned in a better score card! So I chuckle some when I read about guys who now hit a 7 iron 120 yards instead of 150 yards and then tell me that they have an 8 handicap, I will give you my 30 yards right now in exchange for 7 less strokes per round!
Happy Golfing
Ken
15 hdcp
Hi, I’ve received the 10 e-mail and looked at the info provided, and this is my last day to be able to order, but I’ve decided to decline. I live in a small county and dsl here is slow and not dependable. I’m like one of the others that asking for dvd (Kevin). I’ve tried what I canget from the e-mails and I like it, I think.
Thanks, Steve
Don,
I signed up for the free lessons in June and started to read your blog entries. I started to change my swing of 50 years to the PPGS method as I understood it. After some improvement I purchased the Foundations manual and read and practiced what I thought the swing was. I had a lot of improvement and reduced my handicap by a 3 strokes. I felt that I was executing the “back to the catchers’ mitt and up the tree” correctly until last week when I saw the videos of you and DJ hitting all the clubs in you bag with 2 views and DJ’s in slow motion. I realized that I was nowhere close to taking it back to the mitt and up the tree after studying those videos. So I went to the range and forced myself to execute the backswing the way you teach it. By the end of a jumbo bucket I was hitting some amazingly long and straight shots with all the clubs. It wasn’t natural but I could see that I was finally executing the PPGS as it’s meant to be. I played yesterday, it was cold at about 40 degrees, and I was hitting the longest straightest drives and irons of my life and it in the middle of winter here in CT. I nailed one 291 yards as measured with my GPS and another one at 264 yards. Most others were at 245, which is about 20 yards longer than my average drive prior to the backswing change. Even when I missed the ball it went straight and out 180 yards. I shot an 83 with a couple of 3 putt greens and I am even more pumped about PPGS’s potential for my game. Those video’s provided the missing link for me and thanks for making them available.
to Ken:
I basically agree with you — HOWEVER — some length is required — ie 170 yd drives will not get it done from ANY tee!
Good golfing
Amos
Yes Amos, we are in agreement, I am just making the point that all it seems we here about nowadays is how short people like Masters Champion Zach Johnson are in comparison to one of the long knockers not taking much notice that not one of them long knockers is wearing the Green Jacket! It’s all the rave nowadays and although much is made of it, the bulk of it is there to make money off of those gullible enough to buy it all. I waited for a long time to get my driver and it costs less than $200 and I hit it great. I hear alot about distance on this website and realize that there are many older golfers using this system, I am 49 years old and do what I can to maintain my distance by working on my strength, by having correctly fitted equipment, by practicing often and by using the design of a hole and any wind conditions to my advantage just like the shorter hitters on tour do and have always done and there are a bunch of them with significant victories because although driving is important, we will fare better and shoot lower scores from the fairway.
Happy Golfing
Ken
to Ken:
OK — Now we are in totatl agreement — Straight first, then Length.
Just a little about me : I am 68 yrs old, 5 ft 9 in tall and weigh 175 lbs. Due to a serious illness and a long hospital stay, I now have a weak left ankle (getting better due to Physical Therapy) that creates some balance issues — I can not make a “full follow thru” and thus lose club head speed.
I currently hit my driver about 170 yds (up from about 155 last Spring). Most holes require a wdege 3rd shot — regardless of what tee I play — it is just a matter of which wedge. Of neccessity, I have becoma a good wedge and bunker player. Fortunately I was always a good putter!
Happy Golfing
Amos
I saw this item called tour lock. You drill the butt of the grip, insert the weight and lock it with a hex wrench. Ok, that makes up for the weight you lose cutting the shaft. It is confusing to me the difference in doing this or adding weight to the clubhead.
I want to comment on power generated by your swing methodology. I learned to play golf generating power by torquing my uppoer and lower body. I got power, pretty good distance, and I got older, a very sore back.
I now generate my power using your methodology with a 3/4 swing, moderate shoulder turn, miniml hip turn, and flexed knees. The key to generating the power and consistency is standing up. This move pops the whip (shaft) down and then up. There is literally no torque on my back, the ball goes long, straight, and with a repeatable trajectory. When I keep my shoulder and hand low making the backswing into the mitt, I initiate the swing by standing up. My hands literally fly by in synch with my hips. Power, direction, and trajectory are the result and my back doesn’t get sore. I am very excited and began aerobic conditioning and mild weight training in preparation for next year’s tournaments. I am like a kid with a new toy….it is my golf swing. Thanks for the methodology.
J Griffin,
Thanks for the advice, I will try to master the mit to tree backswing next time at the range. Your advice is very helpful. I will let you know how it goes.
Surge,
I have been using your new swing now for about 2 Weeks. My scores have gone up not down.
It seems that I am getting more distance and height from my irons when I hit them well. But every so often I hit right on top of the ball. Probably because I am short lifting my arms in the pre-hit and follow through. Any thoughts to correct this?
Regards
John
Hi Surge my driver i keep fading it to the left being a left hander how can i correct this promblem.
Is there anyone out there who can help me need it.
Ronny, adding weight in the butt end of the shaft will increase total weight of the club but not the swingweight. If you’re cutting the club down and want to keep the same swingweight you need to add it the weight to the club head
Surge,
I am not sure I am understanding the T finish. Can you post a picture of you or DJ in that finish position?
Thanks,
Tom
HEY! LOOK HERE! IMPORTANT!
To All Of My On-Line Colleagues
When I started a year ago learning about the PPGS methodology, I never anticipated such a collective interest and such a collective acceptance of “The Gospel According To The Surge,” Lol!
In the spirit of this holiday season, I would like to compliment and acknowledge the brilliant and insightful swing information shared on this site by individuals brilliant and insightful!
In recognition of outstanding posters, the honor role listing is as follows….
“Mr. Chief Justice” Warren, Craig “I’m really 64” 63, Ken “The Gem” Genz, “Golfing Jones” GJ, “Ms Master Teacher“ Pamela, “Famous” Amos Terrell, “Handy” Randy S, Jim ”I Know How To Read” D, Tom “7-10 Split” Daugherty, Charlie “Rose,“ Ronnie “The Analyzer” Mc Curry, “Words Are Us” Stretch C, Michael “The SwingArch Angel,” John “Never” OB, Harry “Don’t Call Me Hairy” Thompson, Randy “The Dandy” Beckett, Jimsha, and Ken “When?” (Do we play)!
And last but not least, as regards the anatomy and physiology of all golf club implements, special commendation to the Master Club Fitter and Builder, J Griffin.
Together we have formed a PPGS resource team second to none! An investigative body sensitive to the pitfalls of the big muscle rotary swing of yesterday. Ours is a research body ever cognizant and watchful of PPGS interpretation inaccurate and misleading. And I also want to recognize those who have joined me since the first of the year in a crusade to vanquish those pathetic miscreant hackers whose sole existence in life is to disparage innovation and ridicule innovators. It now appears in the last few months, the instigators themselves have been vanquished into a well deserved oblivion. Amen!
MERRY CHRISTMAS !!!
Don, I would like to join and recieve the instructions but I cringe to think about having to download anything to a CD disk or to my computer. I’m not computer literate and don’t have the memory (in the computer or the brain for that matter) to play the videos. They are stop and go and it’s distracting and I miss part of the dialog. If you have CD’s available at an extra charge I will gladly pay the extra fee and shipping. I believe your technique is exactly what I need. Hope to hear from you soon.
Mo