Rich Crossin says:
October 30, 2009 at 12:42 pm
Don,
I can not finish my swing with an iron. I can hit great tee shots with a full finish but I stop a foot past the ball with the irons. Any ideas?
The Surge says:
I saw this question Rich wrote in the blogs and he has quite a difference in his follow through between his irons and driver. Quite a dilemma, as most golfers hit their irons better and their driver worse. Let’s see if we can figure out Rich’s problem.
I will start with looking at the driver since, as Rich says, he is hitting it great and getting to a full finish. I would say that with the ball teed up, you are also “swinging up” at impact, which is evident in your getting to a full finish.
Since Rich can only swing around 1 foot past the ball with his irons, I believe I can surmise with confidence that he is definitely “HITTING DOWN” on the ball and likely doing it big time. Rich does not say it, but I would guess there is a good probability his divots are deep and he may even sort of get his club hung up in the ground, ruining any chance of his getting to a finish.
This could be conscious in that his thought is to hit down on the ball. I have been told numerous times by players that their thought in the downswing is to drive or pound the ball into the ground. On the other hand, it could be unconscious in that he may just be trying to hit down but not pound down and it is causing a swing problem of moving ahead of the ball. If he gets his upper body too far ahead of the ball he is out of balance and he won’t be able to swing up to his finish.
As you all know, I believe, teach and play with the concept of swinging up to the T – Finish with all the clubs, especially with the irons. Hitting down on the ball is, I believe, the “#1 evil” in golf. Hitting down on the ball is a major cause of the upper body moving ahead of the ball in the downswing, or forward up-swing as I call it. This produces a myriad of problems, from loss of balance falling forward, to even pulling out of the shot and falling backwards, as well as the basic chunks, too thin shots, pulls and blocks.
The concept of swinging up to the T- Finish for irons is also aided with the thought of hitting the ball with a shallow divot. This thougt should be used for all irons, even the wedges. The thought I use is that of tearing the grass out of the ground, not digging it out. Another is trying to nip or clip the ball off the grass. The club will enter the ground, but the divot will be small in length and shallow in depth as the club will come out of the ground quickly because of swinging up.
Hitting the ball with these swing thoughts about impact being shallow and swinging up, will really help keep your club, hands, arms and torso swinging to and through the ball to the finish. This is because everything in your downswing /forward up-swing is all about up to the finish, not down into the ground. This should also help a lot of you who are hitting pretty good shots but are lacking distance. You’ll get some more length with all your clubs. Swinging up naturally increases arm, hand and thus clubhead speed because you are swinging through the ball to the finish, not at the ball and the ground.
The Surge!
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Surge I agree with your analysis here and would like to say one thought. Many amateurs view the ball as the target meaning that all swing thoughts are how to hit the ball. They do not focus on the swing and therefore stop shortly after impact. The swing should be consistent with the ball just getting in the way. You will swing more relaxed and in tempo thus hitting the ball more solid and with good distance. One other tip is to always make your divot in front of the ball. It will be shallow and the swing will be full. Great job Don. http://www.aboutjuniorgolf.com
The Surge. I have to agree to a point, but it is a matter or complex equivalence. My idea of up, level or down my be different than yours so…
We experience htting up, down and level and see which one works best for “our” swings.
So your action through the ball may be best swinging up but the point of impact is pretty much the same for everyone how we define that feeling or sensation is individual.
I have given direction to people to turn left when driving and they turn right.
I point to the left and they turn left.
I ask them to turn right and they turn right.
It is how they interpretted the information not what I said but their interpretation.
Swiing up on a driver makes sense to me.
Swinging even while hitting an iron makes sense to me.
Hitting a high shot and swinging up makes sense to me. A high finish.
These are basics I learned when I was a wee golfer.
The physics are probably the same and we would probably agree there is not just one way to swing
It is our interpretation and the we experience it that may be different, but again the physics so not change.
Leading a person to have their own experience is what good instruction is all about.
I know eight guys that teach gravity golf, another five that instruct “Stack and Tilt”, another that teach the one plane swing and another hundred that teach “their” basics to their students, whatever their basics might be.
As a golfer, a pro and a student I have had over a hundred and fifty lessons in my life and I would say there were about five that made any sense to me.
Were the other hundred and fifty just a vehichle for the pro to make money?
I do not think that is the case. They all tried to communicate what they felt or experienced when swining a golf club and when it comes down to it, even the idea of a golf lesson isn’t or shouldn’t be about swining a club but on how to hit different shots, the phsysics and dynamics of the swing; etc.
No one can tell me that Lee Trevino, Jack Nicklaus and Nick Faldo all swing incorrectly or correctly but I will tell you this…they all knew how to play golf and win and that is the bottom line.
Look at last years Masters. All three golf professionals had different swings, they approached playing differently, one of them doesn’t even speak English well, the winner but they can all knock the cover off the ball.
Swing up, Swing down, swing even…
I have done it all.
My experience is not your experience.
Let’s find out what your experience is and how you work.
I am not interested in teaching anyone how I work.
With great Respect I disagree with one way of doing this thing called golf.
if the the best players in the world take a divot with their iron every time. how can they be swinging up on the ball.
My wife comes off both feet everytime she hits the ball, How come, her practice swings are perfect
Don, I have been talking with a teaching golf pro about glasses. He noticed that I was wearing progressive bifocals and said flat out that they would have to go. He suggests having a pair of glasses made from the prescription for seeing far (the upper part of the bifocal) and that would greatly improve my ability to swing and connect with the ball.What do you think Thanks John
I bought the dvd’s kind of a disappointment, did not tell us how to generate power for the 300 yard drives or hit my 5 irons consistenly 205 yards like I did for many years. How am I going to generate power in the swing so I can hit the big shot when I need it. I’ve been an Austinite for many years and your swing is similar, that is why I chose it. I thought the bonus videos were the best but, can’t download those. Should I get my money back or are you going to show how to generate the power with the accuracy. Please help what am I doing wrong.
Hi Don.
the very first lesson improved my game. I’m looking forward to the rest of the lessons.
Robert
I hit pretty good most of the time and score in the mid to upper seventys with some 80s + on my handicap card. The problem is I have a hard hook that just shows up every now and then and causes strokes on my game. I hit 2 ob balls on my last round and still shot a 78. If I can get rid of that nasty pull hook I should be close to par golf. I guess I’m ahead of the ball or not staying back but how do I fix it.
Hi Surge
Have only come upon your swing philosophy in the last few months (since suffering a bad back for the 3rd time!), and like the principles very much. Just had a couple of gentle range sessions so far, and am hitting the ball solid (6 Hcp) and so far no back pain – brilliant! Have purchased your full DVD series and manual, and subscribed to the Inner Circle.
Quick question – there are some (limited!) similarities between the PPGS and the Jim Hardy 2-Plane swing, and Jim states that the club setup (lie-angle) should be different between the 1 and 2 plane swings (basically more upright for a 2-Plane golfer of the same stature). Do you believe this also applies to the PPGS?
Many Thanks
Neil
In my quest to swing up to the T-finish, I sometimes stand up a bit too soon and end up topping the ball. So my question is, at what point do you stand up to the T-finish? Should I consciously “see” the club hitting the back of the ball before standing up? What is the visual cue you look for?
@Thomas: Great post. I think Golf is a very individual sport. No 2 people I’ve seen swing the same way. Having said that, you can do it your way as long as it is consistent. That is my quest now… consistency. I hit some really good shots, but lack consistency and rhythm, which affects my scores.
AJ.
@ John Spurr… I also wear progressive bifocals and have always had a consistency problem with hitting thin or fat. I wonder if I should get a set of lenses with a 6 foot focus!
I’m an 80 yrs old & lefthanded.6ft. 220lbs. not very flexible or strong.My problem is being Barrel-chested my left arm gets stuck against my left side on the takeaway, and must spin my upper torso to swing the club. If I reach further out in my setup to clear my chest I feel out of balance, as I’m bending far forward, my rear sticks out and my hands are closer to the ground with the toe of the club up in the air. Any suggestions greatly appreciated.
Thomas that is the finest piece of sense I have read in a long time,, it is ludicrous for one person to teach another unless they could physically step in their shoes, how can some one who has been playing since the age of 6, having been given every opportunity, basic guidance, no money worries, and banged a million balls ever tell joe bloggs what to do, golf is felt, and the feelings transfer into actions through self interpretation, and no one can teach self interpretation
Don,
Since my laser like attention on all that you are teaching, I have started to notice other golfers with greater understanding. I have noticed that Steve Stricker “seems” to be using your techniques when hitting a golf ball. Can you confirm that there are indeed he does?
Thanks,
Von
I am hesitant into buying into this program.Are you an advocate of the medicus swing trainer.If so this is not for me because after using this type of program I have lost distance and have become a sweeper.I have been practicing the methord of shoulder turn 1000 and using the right hand at impact and also slowing down the arms.The result has been more solid ball striking with more distance and a draw instead of a weak ugly fade.I do however feel my knees after hitting many balls.I am currently a 6 handicap and in order to get back in high competition i need to consistantly hit the driver about 280 yards.Can your system do this for me.Thanks Brian Barry
To Thomas
You wrote “No one can tell me that Lee Trevino, Jack Nicklaus and Nick Faldo all swing incorrectly or correctly but I will tell you this…they all knew how to play golf and win and that is the bottom line.”
But before “…they all knew how to play golf and win,“ they all had to learn the most critical of all “bottom lines.“ That bottom line being the swing motion of the clubhead initiated by the hands. All golfers who hit great shots have one thing in common, including the three mentioned above. They all employ golf’s universal imperative! They all initiate a pure swinging motion, which again is defined as “swinging the clubhead with the hands.”
No matter the posture, the hands positions, the body applications — no matter how different these aspects look in every individual swing — to strike a ball fully and with accuracy, everyone must make that pure swinging motion.
You stated; “..Look at last years Masters. All three golf professionals had different swings, they approached playing differently, one of them doesn’t even speak English well, the winner but they can all knock the cover off the ball. “
Yes and what was not different — was the same in all their swings — was a pure swinging motion of the clubhead activated by their hands. A swinging motion that enabled them to “…knock the cover off the ball!” Amen!
That is why, despite the many different swing methodologies that are offered out there, they all can work providing that one universal imperative is applied. That imperative is simply an absolute that must be applied for every shot that is struck fully and accurately!
You said “…even the idea of a golf lesson isn’t or shouldn’t be about swinging a club but on how to hit different shots, the phsysics (sic) and dynamics of the swing; etc.”
Thomas, no, no, and no.
Swinging the club is the one fundamental, the one job that all golfers must perform. Golfers and their golf swings haven’t improved in this country for thirty years just because of the struggling with “hitting different shots,” You contradict yourself. In a golf lesson worthy and productive, understanding the physics and dynamics of the swing IS, in the final analysis, “all about swinging a club.”
Thomas, you go on to say “Swing up, Swing down, swing even…I have done it all. My experience is not your experience. Let’s find out what your experience is and how you work. I am not interested in teaching anyone how I work.”
I respectfully disagree. How you make a great shot IS how everyone else makes that same great shot. What works here for you IS also what works for others. What your positive results experience brings to your game IS the same positive results experience that is expressed in other’s games. How can I make this claim? I can because in all great shot making instances, a pure swing of the clubhead with the hands is accomplished. This works for everyone, every day, in every way. This is the single most universal constant in an activity known for its myriad of approaches and applications. And this is why we all should appreciate, find inspiring, what “works” in other’s swings!
The PPGS can be allowed to stand on its own as an effective way to learn what I call “the universal imperative.“ The PPGS is the easiest and safest approach to that pure golf swing motion. And it works handsomely as attested by all the testimonials on this site.
I am loving your swing method, Surge, as well as the tips and problem solving on this blog! Thanks! Sher
To Harry
You wrote “… golf is felt, and the feelings transfer into actions through self interpretation, and no one can teach self interpretation.”
I agree that feelings of the swing are learned on a personal basis and are experienced relative to the individual’s experiences and beliefs.
But in order for actions and feelings learned through “self interpretation” to be valid — to be fruitful and productive — one must first learn from other’s experiences, from others expressions of feelings. In order for our subjective ego to be open to all of the possibilities and to all the sensitivities of the golf swing motion, we must override the “self interpretive” bias and prejudice that historically has provided barriers to our ability to learn golf.
And this is where the Surge comes in. His job is to teach the PPGS. Your job is to learn its idiosyncrasies and from that learning, manufacture and apply feeling — a feeling of the hands swinging the clubhead uninterrupted by analysis or paralysis!
Namaste
I notice that Neil asked a question regarding Jim Hardy and a 2 plane swing. I thought Jim Hardy was more involved with a 1 plane swing. I had posted a comment about a week ago asking what was main difference between a 1 plane swing anf the Peak Performance swing. No responses were given.
I am in my 70’s and started paying (or tried) with the 1 plane swing. The back swing is similiar with PPG as it short but the width of stance is wider for the 1 plane. I’m trying to get the handle on the PPG swing but having some problems. I do not like to keep switching swings and like the concept of the PPG swing but might have to give it up and work on the 1 piece or natural golf swing.
SOMEBODY RESPOND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Man!!
Where were you, when I needed you? When I first started to swing a club, I would never take a divot. I couldn’t for some reason. Yet, I was able to eventually break “90″. When golf became a popular TV pastime, I saw divots galore, and I felt I had to get me some of those divots. Well, with instruction, I learned how to take divots ……….. sometimes deep divots you could park a truck in. Do you know what happened? Right! My shoulders, elbows and wrists, individually or in various combinations, hurt, and my score went south. These days, it is unusual for me to break “100″.
Then, you come along and I learn that I was doing just fine in the beginning, probably should have stayed with it. I feel reborn, thanks to you Rev Surge.
To Mickey
If I remember Don’s response to this question from another reader correctly, the Surge regards thye PPGS very definitely a one plane application. The club goes up a prescribed vertical path on the backswing and goes down and up that same vertical path on the forward swing.
If you like the concept of the PPGS, forget about how to lable its plane. Just do it!
This is for John Spurr on switching another kind of lens. It sounds like you are talking about switching to lined bifocals. I strongly recommend that you consult an optometgrist who plays sports before making a switch. I switched from lined bifocals to progressive lenses upon such advice from three people, two ophalthalmologists and an optometrist. The all play a lot of tennis and golf, which I do also. I learned that progressive lenses keep objects in focus as them move from far away to close by, but you have to learn to move your eyes instead of your head as you look down to close objectives. With lined bifocals, as you shift your focus from a far object (target) to a near object (the ball), either you will look at the ball by dropping your head, using your distance prescription, or you will drop your eyes and look through your reading prescription while transitioning through the junction between the two lenses. I can’t tell you which one would work best for you. All I can do is recommend that you speak to an expert who also plays sports.
dear ninermike, well put, you have obviously done a lot of analysis, however I dont agree, to play at your own top level it is neccessary to know exactly what you are doing, almost able to watch yourself out of body, only at this time will you reach true potential, many a pro is just swinging and his natural talent gets him “up there”, but because of his inability to disect his action in real time full potential wont be reached.
thanx for making good debate
in the end, if the ball goes where you aimed it, your doing it right
Randy Beckett’s revival of the ball as the object of focus to be hit versus the ball merely being in the path of the swing brings up an interesting effect of differences in cognitive preferences that researchers have been studying for years. You can think of this in terms of a jazz musician who must excel at both technique and artistry, different musicians have cognitive styles that differ, one from another. Some focus on techniq
To Charlie
Good point!
A jazz musician must first learn technique before he or she can apply anything resembling artistry.
In a pure swing action, if centrifugal force is the desired power to propel a golf ball, then concentrating on the object to be struck can cause a slow down and/o ra misdirection and make less effective the technique of swinging the clubhead.
Don, I have been taking lessons for a year and a half and have not seen much improvement in my full swing in spite of all the ball I hit at the range, so I went to the range two weeks ago and started using the PPGS and I am having very good sucess, I have never hit my irons as cleanly and purely as I am now and I am starting to tear the grass and get the bacon strip divots you talk about, it just takes some time and application of what you are teaching. I would like to add one thing and that is the importance you put on alignment is really helping me as it is very easy to become lazy with this rather boring part of the routine but I have made it a priority in practice and it is starting to pay dividends.
Hitting (irons) up on the ball? Count Yogi said that all his life much to the bewilderment of all and sundry.
Chris Hunter, South Australia
To John Spurr.
Hi John, I’ve tried the transition lens (or progressive lens) and the exercise was a failure. In order to see the ball at address, I had to nod my head, which forced my chin onto my sternum – and that is death to the golf swing. I now use single vision lens (distance) and also have prescription (distance) sun glasses. I find that playing with single vision lens is more comfortable and my perspective remains the same throughout a round of golf or on the range. I just carry a pair of el cheapo, over the counter reading glasses for the score card details.
Look folks, between NinerMike, Randy Beckett, and the Surge ( last but certainly not least ), you have all the info you need to play good golf. Forget all this 1 plane, 2 plane, rotational swing, Down swing, Around swing, into the Ground Swing, Stack & Tilt Swing….blah, blah, blah. Buy this club and you can turn pro. Buy this DVD and all your prayers are answered.,..blah, blah, blah.
We’ve all chased the illusive “secret method”. And you are still chasing it, aren’t you? Well, QUIT doing it! You have all the info you need in front of you, but you need to study it and practice it. The one thing, and only thing, I agree with Ben Hogan on is that you must “dig it out of the dirt’. What he meant was that you get out of golf what you put in to it. There ain’t no free lunch!! Surge has said that himself. You must understand what you are trying to do and PRACTICE. Not “part” of the system, the entire concept. Surge isn’t offering you a buffet, where you pick what you like and leave the rest. It doesn’t work that way.
Study Surge’s DVDs. Then do yourself a favor and take NinerMike’s advice too. Go to Amazon.com and buy a copy of Ernest Jones’s book “Swing the Clubhead”. He teaches you how to execute a PURE swinging action of the club. It’s all you need to do. Forget about shifting the weight to the right on the backswing, pulling down with the left hand to start the downswing, transferring you weight back to the right side, turning your shoulders, etc., etc., etc. With all the images, words, thoughts, and positions you have been told you need to know, how in the world do you think anybody has enough concentration, ability, talent, and/or coordination to do all that? Well, the answer is…THERE ISN”T!!!
There are a few things that are present in every good player. They have excellent balance, for one. That balance produces a graceful look to the swing…whoops, there’s that word again…”SWING”. Funny how that keeps popping up. The balance comes from an absence of out of position force. If you try to ‘Force” a golf swing, just do yourself a favor and quit now. You’re never going to be any good. I’ll telling you what Surge can’t. He’s too diplomatic, and he truly has a desire to see you get better. Unfortunately, for some of you though, his desire is greater than yours. You want it, but not enough to EARN it. Sorry, but that ain’t the way it works.
Get the book by Ernest Jones and it will explain what Surge has been trying to teach you….a pure swinging motion. It’s what ALL top golfers use, bar none! Who is this Ernest Jones and why am I preaching about him. Well, he founded this” Swing the Clubhead” method of teaching. He only had ONE LEG, and could shoot par golf. So, for you out there that have both of yours, what’s your excuse now for continuing to play so poorly? Ernest couldn’t “transfer” his weight. He’d fall over on his face. So forget all that weight transfer stuff you’re trying to MAKE happen. I’m telling you the truth by saying that the Swinging Motion will take care of ALL you need to know to produce a simple, repeatable golf swing that will yield more pleasurable rounds of golf than you ever thought possible. It will produce a swing that has balance, grace, and ease of effort. Oh, and did I mention you won’t tire and hurt either?
WARREN
don,
played a few holes tonight after work…..but it’s getting pretty cool in Canada + light limited now in evening….but , what brightens up my day and warms my heart is the flat left wrist swing ….with no cocking….I have already posted my appreciation for this tip and I bought the program….I hit the ball , especially the driver, more solidly and now i am trying to incorporate all the elements ….the left arm toe line synchronization is really helpful too. How great it is to know that we are doing the right move…..I believe that doubt is one of the golfer’s biggest enemies….
Swingi is getting to be the physical pleasure Ben Hogan spoke of in his “5 lessons”…
Don, superb!!!!! thanks for takling me up the tree!!!!!
Sincerely,
Jeremy f
Re hitting down on the ball – anyone who learned the game in countries that suffer frost in winter would
be well aware that that is the incorrect & very painful way to hit a ball!
As I learned the game in Scotland I very quickly learned to sweep the ball off the ground. The only time you should hit behind the ball is in a bunker with soft sand & a short distance to the green or in a deep fairway bunker to get the ball up quickly.
to John Spurr:
I have worn progressive lenses for many years — and heartily endorse them. To me they are far superior to conventional bi or tri focal lenses.
to John Walowac :
They do “hit down” — the question is really – -how much down? If you read SURGE’s teachings carefully, he is advocating “less down” ( almost flat at impact) than is the current vogue on tour.
IF you have well manicured, well tended fairways and IF you are YOUNG and STRONG, the “big divot” will work. However, creating the divot wastes energy that could be better emplyed in moving the ball.
However, IF your fairways are “less than pristine” then you must hit a shallow divot.. I learned to play on fairwys with very thin turf (about 1/4 inch) over a hard pan clay base — almost like concrete!
Take two to three “big divots” on those fairways and your net stop was the hospital for new wrists, elbow or shoulders — perhaps all three. One soon learned to play iron shots more like most instrutors teach for fairway woods — that is to “just nip” the ball from the grass.
to AJ:
I have/had a similar problem — standing too soon and getting thin hits. Try this and see if it helps — use a swing thought of “nipping (or clipping) the ball off the tuff with a very shallow divot” — and try to see it before you stand up
to Chris Hunter?
Count Yogi? surely you do not mean Yogi Berra!! Opppppppps — my age is showing again!! :<)))
GOOD LUCK to ALL
AMos
To John Walowac
The shallow divot is taken after the ball is on its trajectory to the target. It does not impede the follow through. The only way anyone is going to master this is by practice, practice, and more practice. Sure, pros take divots all the time, but they’re always following through aren’t they? They finish “up”.
To Warren
Your eloquence is astounding and infinitely appreciated on this PPGS forum. People have got to stop getting caught up on all of the golfing minutia and start swinging the clubhead. That’s it!
The great teachers of yesteryear all used the greatest swinger of their time as the ultimate model — Bobby Jones!
My biggest problem is I do not “feel” comfortable at the upper portion of my back swing. I have tried everything from keeping my left arm straighter, going slow on the back swing- to faster to caulking the wrist to EVERYTHING!!! I will slice the ball then I will find myself hooking, then all of a sudden I am hitting straight!???
I need help.
Are you able?
Very Sincerly,
Jim
What was your answer on playing with progressive bifocals?
I am a 67 year old male who does not hit drives very long. A good drive of mine is going 165yards.
Trying your system, I am not missing the ball as often or having big fades so my average distance is increasing, but I am still the second shortest hitter in a group of 40 with one male 85 years old, replacement hip, pace maker and operations on both knees. And I am not far in front of him.
I think I start correctly in your recomended stance and swing positions. Feet flared, knees like I am riding a thin horse, weight on right foot, spine tilted, left arm straight, right arm under left with right elbow joint facing upwards. I am trying to use your grip with left arm straight, and right hand under with second knuckle of right hand at 7 o’clock possition. My club is going back into the catchers glove and straight up the tree. It is not going further back into a sacred burial ground.
My handicap is the lowest it has been for a year so things are getting better. I think I am not getting the longer more solid hits yet, because at contact (I figure this out after playing a round not during the round) my right hand is on top of the shaft facing down
What drill or what can i do to have my right hand in a plam up possition at contact.
A baseball pitcher throws the soft ball with his palm facing down at the peak of his back swing, and then when he releases the ball his palm is facing the target. He has gotten his arm to swing at maximum velocity.
I know force = mass times velocity squared. I think my right hand position at contact is impeding my velocity and causing me to hit weaker shots. Some how at contact I need to stop having my right hand on top of the shaft pointing to the ground and get it in the same position as I started my swing
Thank you for considering this question.
I keep trying to send this Email and under Mail I keep putting my mailing address and the E mail keeps getting rejected because of an incorrectr E mail address. This time under mail I will put my E mail address and hope this can be sent.
To Warren
Alleluia, Warren. You have said what needed to be said on this forum. The more nonsense we take onto the golf course with us, the worse we tend to play. Like you, I found little or nothing of value in Ben Hogan’s Five Lessons. Hogan fashoned a swing which suited him. Trying to apply his swing methods simply tied me up in knots. ( a book reviewer commented that the biggest beneficiaries of the book would be the Chiropractors of North America)
Another Hogan – Gerry Hogan, (Australian) had this to say about cluttering up the mind with a myriad of dodgy swing thoughts: “If you want to punish yourself, go and buy a whip…it will be a lot cheaper than a set of golf clubs”
To Jim and To Peter Goodbody
STOP!
Yes, I said stop! Stop getting yourselves all caught up in golf swing jargon. Every example you gave re swing positions are examples of introducing leverage into your swing. And leverage is the number one golf swing killer! Again, concentrating on one or more of the problems you cite will always result in an application that will absolutely prevent you both from ever improving — from ever creating that pure swinging motion.
You both must give up this idiosyncratic analysis of your forms and concentrate all your energies on the one and only one single most important swing thought — swinging the clubhead with your hands! This will produce a pure swing motion — a motion that will automatically fulfill all of the PPGS requirements.
Here’s what you both need to do. Go back and reread all of the posts on this discussion “Swing Up, Even Hitting Irons.”
Read and reread Warren’s white paper that very concisely and very accurately addresses the maladies afflicting tens of millions of golfers world wide. Then read and reread the very concise and the very accurate solution he presents to all of those maladies — including yours!
Namaste
Can you explain the “T-Finish” again please. I don’t quite understand it.
Completing the golf ball being an object to be struck versus merely sitting in the path of the club head (for those who may be interested in what will sound like some mumbo-jumbo)
I’m sorry for the incomplete posting earlier on the cognitive differences between people who focus on the ball as an object to be struck versus those who focus on the swing with the ball merely resting in the path. I thought I would complete the thought for those who are interested in reading more on this subject, particularly if you have youngsters who are trying to learn any sport.
This case of the golf ball is an clear example of cognitive differences, without commenting on which view of the golf ball is superior or better for developing a golf swing. In the case of an expert jazz musician who has both technique and artistry, you cannot tell which came first, technique or artistry. In the case of an expert dancer, you cannot tell which came first, the precise body movements or the flair. You even hear to two kinds of quarterbacks, the kind that throw to a spot and the receiver has to get there, and the kind who lead a receiver, and the receiver has to run under it. I once read about two different kinds of golf swings, one type that is kinesthetic and mechanical, and the other that is more rhythmic and ballet like, differences that probably come from differences in how an individual relates to motion–in terms of its pieces or in terms of its fluidity.
It is much easier to coach an athlete whose cognitive style matches up with the task than to coach a person against his or her cognitive style, and it is easier to coach a younger athlete against his or her cognitive style because, as neuro scientists tell us, the neural networks of adults are already crystallized and we have to learn new things using our hard wired neural nets. On the other hand, the neural nets of younger people are not cluttered, and thus they can form new neural nets that become more efficient in processing the new information. Bottom line–even if method A may be more effective than method B to prduce an effect, if that person’s cognitive style is more in line with method B than method A, the coach will need to have a bigger bag of tricks to either get the person to become comfortable with method A or go get the person to become competent using method B. Expert coaches know this inherently from their experiences and can adapt their teaching for different individuals. If you got this far in reading this, thanks for reading.
Don ,i know you are very busy ,but i would like to talk to you about your videos please call 217-235-3966
To all who have progressive lens’s in your glasses. I too have them and I can’t use them when I golf. the field of view with progressive lens’s is way to narrow. and it puts my head in the wrong position. I have a set of Sun glasses that are single vision and that does the trick. it makes all the difference in the world. just my 2 cents and experience. By the way love the PPGS. my back feels great and I had my first 100 yard eagle last week end.
To Ninermike and Warren
I live in the UK and have problems getting Ernest Jones’ book; but I did read a review . I tried simulating Jones experiment using string and a bunch of keys. I could swing the keys to eye level, smoothly, eventually by keeping my arm still just using my wrist with very little movement.
I’m baffled as to how to use this movement to swing the clubhead;please ,please,explain.
John Matthews
Don,
I just got done playing 18 here in the chilly northeast.(Pa.) I am not complaining it was gorgeous fall weather. Your tip on trying to hit the ball over the fence was a real charm. I hit some perfect 6 irons and had better than usual control with the wedge. Also I tried to focus on the shallow divot.
Much appreciated,
Rich the hacker.
To Charlie.
Good explanation, Charlie. It is difficult to rewire our mental ‘hardwiring’. My natural flair, from birth, is to perform single handed activities with my right hand. However, I am left handed with all activities requiring 2 hands – sweeping, chopping, shovelling, etc. I first played golf at age 32. A pro golfer advised me to grip the golf club with my strong hand underneath. Consequently, I became a reluctant right handed golfer. After playing golf for 40 years, I still feel uncomfortable, weak and ungainly playing righthanded. Don says that we have to use equal pressure and speed in both hands, regardless of which side we play the ball. He may be correct in relation to hand activity. However, the swing isn’t just about which hand is the strongest; it is more about the mental programming and the way our body turns to perform certain tasks.
For me, at age 72, the most challenging aspect of adopting the PPGS is overcoming the more rotational, horizontal, golf swing ‘hardwiring’ which has been programmed into my psyche over the last 40 years. Accordingly, Don’s claim that the PPGS can be learned by hitting 2 buckets of balls is sheer sales hype. Since using the PPGS, my handicap has blown out by 4 strokes, pursuant to hitting some 2000 balls. Maybe, I’m a slow learner, but I blame it on the mental ‘hardwiring’ acquired over the past 40 years.
so what your saying is it a DECENDING blow, not making contact with the ball on the up swing. so you are hitting down then .
To John Matthews
No, no, no! Making a swing with a rock or a club is NOT about the wrists or the arms. It’s about the hands moving in space which cause the rock or clubhead to perform a natural swing motion.
The only way you are going to understand and retain this critical concept is by obtaining instruction. Go to http://www.frankelgolf.com and all will be revealed to you. The Frankel brothers of Florida are the leading proponents of Ernest Jones and have created a manual and dvd that are the state of the art on explaining the “swinging the clubhead with the hands” methodology.
@NinerMike, I thought you worked for the Surge. Almost every post you’ve made recently pushes the Ernest Jones method rather than the PPGS, although I’m guessing they overlap. Are you spamming us?
To Michael
In two bucket of balls, I immediately started hitting shots straight and with power. Yes, it can be done if you are swinging the clubhead with your hands. No matter your “mental hardwiring over the last 40 years,” a pure swing action will overcome any bad habit because a pure swing motion is instinctive and natural to the body.
You stated: “… the swing isn’t just about which hand is the strongest; it is more about the mental programming and the way our body turns to perform certain tasks.”
Yes, and the mental programming and the positions of the body parts are all automatically facilitated by again, a swinging of the clubhead with the hands!
It sounds as if some paralysis by analysis has crept into your game. And any emphasis on doing something other than swinging the clubhead with your hands will introduce the public enemy number one swing killer, “leverage!”
See my comment to John Matthews on this post. Follow the instructions listed and those four strokes you added to your handicap will be made orphans — instantly!
This blog may be good advice for someone having trouble huge divots or fat shots, but for golfers who tend to thin their shots, I beleive the advice is counterproductive
This blog may be good advice for someone having trouble huge divots or fat shots, but for golfers who tend to thin their shots, I believe the advice is counterproductive
To Ed Dunphy
Who are these rare and indiscriminate individuals who, when one wants to help and lend aide, view suspiciously the activity and accuses the giver of trying to profit monetarily in some kind of surreptitious way?! No doubt there was one or more adults who were present in that individual’s formative years and modeled for that young being a suspicious nature and a negative perspective on humankind. But I digress…
Mr. Ed, you haven’t been paying attention to my comments nor to the exasperated readers and questioners using this site. I am a proponent of the PPGS and I feel it is the best awing application out there. For those people who have found golfing nirvana in applying the PPGS, it’s because they are following Don’s teachings utilizing an affective pure swing motion. But many are struggling with the PPGS and there is, I believe, a common and consistent reason for that struggle.
Ernest Jones along with Manuel de la Torre, the Frankel brothers, and Dick Farley are all about teaching the pure swing motion of the clubhead. And all of their instruction is consistent with, contributes significantly, to the PPGS.
My motive for citing their contributions is to further the success of all adherents to the PPGS who continue to struggle. The PPGS is an evolutionary methodology in learning the swing. The PPGS has evolved from those masters from the past. They must not be forgotten if the PPGS is to continue to be the revolutionary instructional model it has become for all golfers.
Mr. Ed, if in the future you are able to discover some latent empathy in your personality makeup and contribute to this forum, I promise not to accuse you of spamming.
Namaste
To NinerMike
Thanks for your interesting advice, Mike. You are a very helpful contributor to this forum and all of you comments make good sense.
My take-up of the PPGS has not been all negative. I have played to my handicap 5 times since I started PPGS and have hit numerous good shots – both on the range and on the course. However, although my failures have been numerous and disheartening, I continue to endeavour to implement all of Don’s teachings in the hope that the PPGS will serve me well in my extreme old age. You are correct, to some degree, re over-analysis, but I try to leave the analysis on the practice range. I rarely play social golf. I play 2 – 3 rounds of competition golf per week, so I have an official record of all of my scores. When I’m playing, I try to keep my mind clear of all swing thoughts – except ’swing the club head’. Some days are diamonds, some days are stones! The ’swing the club head’ thought usually works well during practice – but, of course, I hit 80 – 90 balls in a session, so some of the shots are very good and the rest are acceptable. During play, we only have one chance at each shot and if it goes badly it can be costly. I will continue to go with the sole thought of ’swinging the club head’ Hopefully, it will pay off.
Cheers. Michael T.
To Michael T
Cheers back to you!
Some times the terminology chosen to describe certain aspects of this swing are misleading.I am afraid the amatuer or intermediate golfer is going to understand hitting up on the ball to literally.This will lead to more fat and thinned shots than taking a big divot.I know people have watched The PGA on TV.,try and count how many iron shots are hit without a divot,the closer to the pin the bigger.Sergio Garcia took a divot when he corked a 5 iron 250 yards.The idea of hitting beyound the ball is a good one,first let’s hit the ball on the way down or you will never be any good at this game.To get perfect contact on every shot,that is required to take a tiny divot is an effort in futility.Get good at making the ball fly good and high then work on a more shallow contact for less divot.
G
Hi Don
Thank you very much for all your golfing advice over the past few months- Its been invaluable.
I’m in my 60s and your 3/4 swing has helped enormously to straighten my shots.
Being Scottish,however , the basebalI analogies are sometimes difficult to follow so I try to imagine a full ( but very light ) bucket of water at the end of my club and endeavour not to spill one drop on the backswing – this slows me down and seems to give a good result provided I progress to the T finish.
However, I still cant get can’t seem to get a lot of distance despite being an ex rugby player and quite fit. Any suggestions?
The surge!
hurrah its finally clicked was at the driving range yesterday perfecting your style of play and found myself hitting down on the ball all the time then i remembered your words on hitting through the ball i adjusted my swing so i wasnt swnging down to steeply and it is now working great i hit the ball longer and straighter than ever before i cant thank you enough i cant wait till saturday as im in a four ball better ball competition will try to win it with my mate Ray
im a 28 handicapper and i am with your style of play now on average scoring 20 points per round on the stableford scoring system and ive only been playing 18 months wow
thanks very much will keep you updated on results of competition and my progression
Dave
Dear Don !
Are you kidding me?? Hitting up at the ball with Irons? come on now, that doesn’t make any sense. Off a tee, Ya, OK. but setting on the ground? To hit up at the ball , means the club head, has to bottom out before it reaches the ball. It can’t be on the way up, if it hasn’t been all the way down. If the ball is on the ground, you would have to hit the ground, or take a divot behind the ball, thus , possibly taking grass, and or sod, with the club face into the back of the ball. Or it you didn’t take a divot, your probably going to blade the ball, hit it fat , or miss it entirely. I sure can see , picking it off the turf clean, or sweeping it off, at the bottom of the the swing, but on the way up, I don’t think so, unless all the best players in the world, encluding DJ, are wrong. I like most of what you teach, Don, but not this time
Francis
To John Matthews
No, no, and no. Swinging the keys using your wrists or arms is completely the INCORRECT way of doing the swing exercise.
You definitely need instuctional guidance on this action. Order Ernest Jones’ book or google Frankel out of Florida, USA.. Once you have the swing motion down, the PPGS will be yours to use forever!
@NinerMike,
Frankel’s and Jones’s swing philosophies have been pushed by you
ubiquitously in your recent posts, something I noted while
contributing to this forum. Not all spam generates money. It often promotes a belief.
Keeping the PPGS in people’s minds is more important than sending them elsewhere.
You mistake my disinterest in your pushing of Jones with a lack of empathy.
On the contrary! I am thrilled that so many get so much out of the interplay on these forums.
Unfortunately, it seems that your focus on the PPGS has recently shifted.
Surge’s Foundations manual contains the nuggets needed to master the PPGS,
I, believe, and along with the videos Don has made (and depends on for money), they can
radically change people’s swings for the better.
Adios!
Ed
Don
Thanks for such a wonderful website and all the valuable information on it. I have played golf for thirty five years and swinging up on the ball has helped me more than anything so far. I hit it straighter and higher with little effort. I had a hole-n-one this week due to your advise. I’m looking forward to learning more.
Ron
To Ed Dunphy
You wrote: “…Surge’s Foundations manual contains the nuggets needed to master the PPGS,
I, believe, and along with the videos Don has made (and depends on for money), they can
radically change people’s swings for the better.”
Your praise and support of the PPGS is admirable. I concur fully and completely with your stance.
The testimonials attributing the PPGS to great pain free golfing success are exciting and inspiring. Those folks are using the system correctly and successfully, I believe, because they are bringing to the PPGS a fundamental application of a golf swing motion. In other words, they already practice, possess, a righteous swing by way of the hands and clubhead before they attempted to ever learn the PPGS.
And the one clear and dramatic impression I receive every time I watch Don employ the PPGS himself on video is the dynamic swing he makes on the club. Again, my initial reaction every time I watch him swing never finds me reflecting upon PPGS positions, but reflecting upon the pure swing action of his form!
But alas, many struggle applying the PPGS principles. And they go about placing their entire focus on a problem with a club position, or a body part, or the stance, etc. That’s okay as long as you are always “swinging the clubhead with your hands.” The beauty of the PPGS is its simplicity; its self corrective feature; its automatic and natural application. But the PPGS can’t work, it can’t help those masses who do not first learn a swinging action. That is why I suggest accompanying materials so that folks feeling exasperated with practicing the PPGS will not quit on it prematurely. And when I read their concerns, I process every time that they are simply not putting a pure swing action on the club as they go through the PPGS training.
And Ed, there is no doubt Don agrees as evidence by his post of “Words from Warren.” Don is totally passionate about bringing better golf to folks through his PPGS methodology. He is on an eternal mission and will approve of anything that will facilitate his teachings. The Ernest Jones system validates the PPGS — helps folks learn it! It does not replace its wisdom.
The hands swing the clubhead. Ernest Jones had it right as does Don. If you think about what the hands are doing, then of course they have to moving up when we hit the ball. Go to all those wonderful swingvision videos on YouTube and check em out. Of course on iron shots, the clubhead will be slightly decending, but what are the hands doing? They are allready on their upswing. Our mind is in our hands, not the clubhead.
The only way you can hit the ball with your hands hitting down, is with a big flip. Think about it. If you hit the ball with your hands at or before their low point, the results are going to be disastorous. Everybody knows that your hands have to be ahead of the ball at impact. Well if your built like most humans, if they’re ahead of the ball they’re going to be moving at best, level, most likely upward.
Look at how a pros shoulders are tilted at impact. Like a javelin throwers. Is the javelin thrower thinking up or down? I hope the answer is obvious.
why do pros use metal shafts on their irons , but use graphite on their woods
The Down the initial movement and what it looks like and where the power comes from.
Thanks Leo Coffey
also my computer is not that reliable so can I get the DVDs and Manual sent via mail to my house. The telephone given on your website changes or never works. Sorry but that is the true. Love your swing.