nice article! trying to learn more about golf swing. and this blog helps me.

In anattempt to clarify the wrist confusion. I taught that the movement from left to right(cupping or bowing) is a wrist hinge, much like a swinging door. The wrist cock is a vertical move of the wrists that does result from the forces of the swing. The movement is similiar to hitting a nail.

Hope this helps with the confusion!!

Rick

to Marty Schorn:


Both feet are flared out at 30 degrees, but a line across the toes (the Toe LIne) is parallel to the target line (Parallel Left)

Hope this helps

Amos

Don: I noticed that you have an advertisement on the TALY MIND Set site. I was wondering what you think-feel about this product?

It appears that a limited backswing is being implemented. There's also no wrist cock - which you also endorse.

It looks like a useful device that would be easily incorporated with the PPGS.

Ted Edwards DC

Don,

I purchased your video series and can't wait to begin my new golf journey with you and PPGS. I live in PA and we are snowed in presently. I've cleared a training pad out back and am trying to engrain your techniques now to have a leg-up on next season. For me, one item missing is how to position my feet. The narrow stance with outward pressure on the knees feels great and I'm sure that will work great. But exactly how are the feet positioned in relationship with the straight swing path? Are the feet parallel and perpendicular to the swing path? Is the right foot flaired a bit toward the target?

Keep up the good and creative work!

Merry Christmas and a Safe and Healthy New Year to you and yours!

Marty

Quite the ongoing debate about wrist cock. I find everybody is pretty much on the same page but the words "wrist cock" mean different things to everyone (NinerMIke, J Griffin, Ken Genz). What the PPGS states about not having wrist cock is only for the front wrist. It is impossible to have rotation away from the target with no vertical wrist hinging and not have the back wrist hinge towards the back elbow. So this move has both no wrist break and wrist break at the same time. It seems as if this is the bone of contention. The key to the PPGS is the dropping of the arms vertically from the top of the swing so they fall in front of the back hip and then let the arm rotation whip through the impact to the high finish. Vertical wrist hinging can add additional speed but it adds a fourth motion to the swing without providing enough extra energy. Let us move into the new year with out the misunderstandings and work on improving the definitions that will help players to play better golf with less body stress.

“Words Are Us”
Happy Holidays

Mike,
You are without a doubt the biggest smoke blower I have ever seen. So, give me your email address or better yet, here is mine, thegolfstop@att.net and we can continue this battle of the wits until oblivion sets in if you wish. And don't let the reader's think that Don was brought in to this due to you. I approached him due to everything I posted, you contridicted. And, to top it off, you jump again on my post to Ken. I didn't attack you.

And what is this?
An aside: For someone who feels this topic about wrist hinge to be so trivial, it confounds all my readers why you give it so much attention — like thousands of unsolicited words pouring in from all sides of the globe! Ye Gads!

What in the world do you mean ALL YOUR READERS? And, the attention I give wrist cock is the amount that is needed to offset your input about it since there is NO WRIST COCK. I also don't think I tivialized it. I was referring to the matter of word games not the concept.

I think that what is evident here is that you have a bit of trouble with someone stepping up on what has been your stage for a year. Get used to it.

Well, Niner since you asked. If Randy was indeed dropping the right shoulder it would be as a result of too much lower body movement to the left. This causes you to come a lot more from the inside and with improper timing, a slice would result. It can also result in the change of the spine angle which decreases the swing arc and can cause somewhat of a fat shot which can open the club face and send it to the right. Randy said that he was hitting it straight but to the right. This flight is not indicative of dropping the shoulder. A slice yes, but straight no!

Also, in the PPGS, PLHR, we use a slight shoulder tilt to begin with in the setup. So, the right shoulder is lower initially. Generally hitting the ball STRAIGHT to the right is indication of improper ball position or poor timing.

However, your insight is simply uncanny. No otherway to describe it, UNCANNY!!! and............I am amazed. I guess you could more accurately put it that when I read his post I was in a total state of unbelief. Yep, I think that pretty much sums it up, UNBELIEF and I still am. It simply defies all logic and principles here to fore, simply UNBELIEVABLE.

To all interested in the wrist debate:

The point is so trivial yet so monumentous. So, we'll examine this from another perspective. I have a pistol. That pistol has a hammer. I pull the hammer all the way back until it locks. I think this would be called "cocked". We have created an altogether different angle in relation to the original position. Now, if I took that same hammer and only pulled it back ever so slightly, it's not cocked but it has moved on it's "hinge". One of Don's major area of instruction is in not creating angles. Clue #1

If you look at the video of DJ you'll see his first move is to rotate his left forearm clockwise and this sets his hands and they do not move from this postion throughout the entire swing. So, you can call it whatever you wish but the language you have to speak is one that is understood by the masses. Clue #2

So, the masses look at wrist cocking as an action to accomplish just like turning the shoulders, rotating the hips, whatever. It's an action, not a result. I'm sure the debate will continue because it's somewhat of a word game but in that I am also a certified master teaching professional, I do feel somewhat qualified to address the topic with a manner of authority as opposed to just someone who has read a book or two and has a notion about what is or isn't done or what have you. There are several prominent teachers that teach "wrist cock" so it's not just a by product (name Ledbetter, who teaches very early wrist cock)

As to the precept that the wrists hinge due to centrifugal force I am still trying to wrap my head around that. Centrifugal force keeps objects traveling in a circular path. Centripetal force is force directed toward the center. So, my contention is that the force acting on the club is actually gravity.

So, the wrists will hinge slightly due to the weight of the club, we do not make a conscious effort to create angles with the hands by bending the wrist toward the arm, and you can call this whatever you like. A rose by any other name....................

TO NINER MIKE:

I am afraid you have it all wrong. First of all I do advocate the upright swing, as does Surge and as I have explained in using the cervical vertibrae as the axis of your swing (this forces a vertical swing).

Regarding the wrists, obviously the wrists unhinge in the down swing. They have to to hit the ball. I am not referring to this. I am referring to the backswing only, not the downswing. Intentional locking of the wrists in the backswing which is promoted in the PPGS. This is a restriction of an available power source. Whether you can handle it or not is the issue. Perhaps "Ninermike" can't, but for all of you who give it a try, you will see success and greater power. And I bet "Ninermike believes distance comes from clubhead speed too! Have to go now. More later.

And "NinerMike" (look who is making fun of names), why don't you explain for all of us who you are putting down for doing what the Sur\ge created this blog to accomplish, sharing of ideas, where you think the power comes from in the golf swing? .

The practice swing is part of my preshot routine and is absolutely critical to hitting a good shot. I want my practice swing to emulate, speed and feel, the shot I am attempting to execute. In fact, after the practice swing, I visualize the shot and try to hit the it within 30-45 seconds. Hitting the shot within a few seconds increases the effectiveness of muscle memory and allows me to maintain my concentration which is criical to hitting the desired shot.

Thanks, Jim

Any advice for a left eye dominant right hander.

Ken G,
I hear you sir! And, I agree with you. What has been missed again comes back to what picture words paint. Having taught the rotational swing for years, we teaachcocking the wrists which is a conscious act and requires voluntary movement on the part of the golfer to creat that 90* angle of the hand in relation to the forearm. However, in the PPGS swing there is no wrist cocking. The ever so slight movement of the hands occurs solely as a result of the force exerted on them by the weight of the club. The major difference in the two swings is obviously that in the rotational swing there is more shoulder turn and cocking of the wrist and in the PPGS swing with less rotational turn the forearms have to rotate more which helps set the club on the proper plane which is more verticle.

OK, a "less bad shot" is one which is not as bad as your previous shots. The goal then is to increase the number of "less bad shots". So you want more "less bad shots" and fewer "bad shots". You can have shots that are less bad, but to be grammatically correct improvement in your score means fewer shots in a round not "less" shots in a round.

I started playing golf when I was 62. Started with the Moe Norman single plan swing with Natural Golf. I am 73 now and have done OK for my age , I guess, but am still improving slowly....never satisfied. It is funny that the old folks I play with have all been playing forever and are constantly bitching about there shots and game in general. I on the other hand am on the other side of the coin...looking forward to my next round to see if my practice sessions have helped my gam

e or not. I am going to see if your solution to the problem can be incorporated into the single plane swing. I will report back on my progress. Do you have any comments before I start going backwards in order to go forward. I am in good shape and have a lot of flexibility. I hit a controlled seven iron 140 yards with a little roll and a pitching wedge 115. my index is 17

Ed Hiebert

Hi Don
Golf mad Phil here again from icy cold Brittain (this will probably come up at 2am though its 9am here -----the last one I sent was between 2 & 3 am just before going to bed)

What i missed out last time was that for the 1st time in over 10 years ( I'm now nearly 55 )
NO BACK PAIN or stiffness the next day
And again today NO BACK PAIN---------BRILLIANT
Really looking forward to 2010 when the temperture starts rising----about MAY time & can take some clothing off & let rip with the clubs

Merry Xmas

(your videos are the best Xmas present I've ever had )

Hope you & your Son have a very successful 2010

Cheers Phil Q

PS I wonder if hitting it down the "Tiger Line " now means hitting it in the Trees or a Fire Hydrant
OOps just as well you Dont know where I live.

Don, I would just like to say that your swing is really working for me. Before using the PPGS I was at a loss. My game was going down hill. I went up to a 17 handicap and now that I have your swing down, I am now a 12 handicap.
I practice Every day for about an hour and before I hit a ball I take as many practice swing as I need before taking the shot. I still have a ways to go to get my distance with my irons but my wife keeps reminding me that I'm 71 years old. I can't believe she would say that to me.
Thanks again.

MEDICUS DRIVER EXPERIENCE:

I have purchased and owned two Medicus clubs, the 5 iron and the driver, both with the dual hinge. They both work well, if you are not "laying the club off" or "crossing the line" in your swing. This is nothing new. The good news is that with the PPGS, you do not need the Medicus.

The Medicus clubs will work with the PPGS as the PPGS eliminates the aforementioned two swing faults for which the Medicus was specifically intended to teach.. I see the PPGS as a very effective way of avoiding these swing faults, for two reasons. First of all, in the PPGS, no wrist break is advocated. Accordingly, a player cannot incorrectly break their wrists and either "lay the club off" or "cross the line." This works for the PPGS swing and will work with the Medicus clubs because the Medicus clubs promote vertical wrist breaks only, which is the only way the wrists should break in a correct golf swing. Of course that is if you break your wrists in your swing, which is not advocated in the PPGS. The Medicus was designed to teach the vertical wrist break only and to collapse if the club is "laid off" or if it is "crossing the line." Both of these swing faults are avoided by the PPGS because the wrists do not break, therefore they cannot be broken incorrectly (laid off or crossing the line).

If you want to understand this, try hitting a shot by holding a regular club at address in front of you and breaking your wrists vertically (straight up). Then, holding the club in front of you with the head of the club straight up in front of you, at least at waist height, raise your arms up above your head and turn your body as in a normal backswing. Tou should end up with the club in the correct position at the top, pointing at or parallel to the target line. Then if you swing correctly from this position, you should hit a straight shot.

As you can see, this can be difficult to learn from a normal address position. This is one great advantage of the PPGS. With a firm grip and no wrist break, you have effectively eliminated the chances of "lahying the club off" or of"crossing the line" with the club.

HOWEVER NO WRIST BREAK ELIMINATES A POWER SOURCE. The PPGS answers this problem by increased arm speed using a vertical swing plane. As I mentioned earlier in another comment section, the vertical swing advocated by the PPGS is the same swing plane made by Jack Nicklaus, USING THE CERVICAL VERTIBRAE AS THE AXIS OF THE SWING. The issues in all swings is a compromise between power sources and accuracy. The vertical swing, no wrist break PPGS swing works because of the power from the increased arm swing. This works especially well if you have long arms. Not as well with shorter arms. Conversely, if a player can learn to control their vertical wrist break and avoid "laying the club off" or "crossing the line" (one of which will happen if you do not break your wrists vertically) they can increase their power and distance with additional speed from a proper, vertical wrist break.

The issue of the 70 degree turn vs. the 90 degree (or greater) turn is totally inconsistent with every other professional golfer, including Arnie, Jack, Tiger, Freddie Couples (and the list goes on). The restricted turn, like the restricted wrists, advocated by the PPGS, are effective for players who cannot consistently break their wrists vertically or do not know that they mjust do so to have a correct swing. This is what the Medicus clubs are designed to teach. So while the Medicus clubs will work with the PPGS (provided you do not yank the club back from address), I do not see the point is using the Medicus with the PPGS. The PPGS omits the need for the Medicus club.

So which is better? The full turn with a wrist break or the PPGS. That is up to each player. I just hope to clear up the fact that a vertical wrist break will omit the need for the Medicus and the PPGS. If you can break your wrists vertically (correctly) and shift your weight properly (lead with the lower body), a full turn of 90 degrees or more with a vertical wrist break, will generate more controlled power than the PPGS. Just look at the swings of the players who are the top money winners on the PGA tour. Which are winning the most money, full turn wrist break or PPGS? I think the PPGS is fine for beginners or those who do not understand vertical wrist breaks and leading with the lower body. But if you break your wrists vertically and lead with the lower body, while letting the upper body go and just let it follow the lower body (like the tip of the bull whip), you too will achieve greater controlled power. If you cannot do these things, the PPGS works.

to Surge:

Thank you for the comment on 100 hole balls.

My current challenge is to improve on 10 of 14 fariways ( I ususally miss two fairways by a matter of inches) If you can't be long -- YOU had DAMNED WELL Better be STRAIGHT!!

The problem for me hitting greens in regulation is purely length -- from any tee. However as my left ankle continues to improve, I see some hope in that direction -- I am currnetly getting about 3 or 4 GIR -- up from 0 as my Averge Drive goes up from 150 yds to almost 170 now ( with my longest drives at 200 yds)

As to snacks on the course -- it is usually none -- I eat a good breakfast about 1 to 1 and 1/2 hours before the round - and in our hot Arizona sun, I carry a large bottle of Gatorade in my bag -- no coffee or soda, etc

Thanks for the feedback


Amos

Hi Don ,
I.ve tried the new swing in the back garden during the week & only got to hit a golf ball
for the 1st time in competition yesterday (Sat).
It was a team comp so I had to tell my playing partners that I had a new swing & I might hit a few bad shots , but it only took 4 shots to hit my 1st good one & actually made a birdie on the 5th hole !

Played again today (Sun ) & the weather over here in North West England was appalling
Freezing , snow, hail , biting wind & very occasionally a little bit of Sun.
Anyway had themal underwear, poloshirt, jumper & a fleece jacket on to try & keep warm
so the swing had to be restricted Anyway had a 75 Nett (5 over par) off 8.Thats good for me !

That Nett score was the best of the day, but did not win the comp as there was a 73 on Fri
when the weather was a lot better. Still some points on the board in the Winter League at last

Used the same ball for BOTH rounds as it was the only yellow ball I had in my bag which helped in the Frosty conditions.

Its Golf BUT not as you know it , Don --- Sometimes think I need my head testing when playing in these conditions !

PS Its quite normal for me to still have the same ball at the end of the round -if I've lost over 2 balls in around then its been a stinker..

PPS I can quite understand other golfers being amazed at still having the same ball at the end of the round as I regularly play with other golfers that lose 2 or 3 balls EVERY round
Thats how my golf shoes get wet---looking for their golf balls in the rough !l

I have the Medicus driver and found it helpful, but not as much so as if I try a rotational swing. I was going to return it but they offered to take $40 off, so I kept it. If nothing else, I'll give it to a friend to help them.

In the 70s I had to change my ball every 3-4 holes. They would go out of round or get nicked up and weren't of much use. Now I get two rounds from one ball, then I retire it to the practice bag. However, I can't imagine being able to play a 100 holes with one ball. That's cruel and inhuman punishment.

to SURGE:

as I suggested -- you are a "type A" - it shows in your swing.

I unfortunatley am a "type B" (maybe even a type C?) -- few things upset or annoy me ecept for obnoxious loud mouth :know it alls"

Having said that - I learned the PPGS by making ultra slow swings -- maybe 15 second swings initally. then working up to faster and faster through a series fo maybe 25 or 20 swings. Then start all over with the ultra slow swings until it all became "automatic"

It does work that way -- and it allows you to "check your position" at any point -- specially PLHR, "into the mitt" and "up the tree"


Good Golfing to ALL

Amos

To Bob Greer,

Way to go...Keep it going!

The Surge!

To Marilyn,

As for winter training, I just wrote an article on 12/10 called "Winter Workout." It has some good exercise and practice ideas.

The Surge!

To Amos,

Right on Brother back to you on only 2 OB's in over a 100 rounds. I also am equally impressed with using 1 ball for 100 holes they retiring it with 6 on the mantle. Next time you do one to 100 holes you need to keep going to see how many you can get to. There may be a contest in this.

I very rarely loose balls and as such play them quite long. But I never stretch them out to 1oo as even if you hit them well they start to show some serious wear which then will affect accurate flight. But I like the challenge of 100 holes with the same ball.

Another good challenge to keep track of which is also difficult is hitting all 18 greens in reg.

As for your good starting 6 holes, then poor middle and then good closing 6 dilemma. I might venture into diet and nutrition as the cause. Especially if you are having proper snacks at the turn like peanut butter crackers and not candy and our coffee or sugary drinks.

I wrote a few articles way back on diet and nutrition you may want to try finding them as they outline this issue pretty well.

Finally, when one starts hitting it more solid and straight and thus longer, clubbing changes and it takes some time to re-establish your new yardages. This can also happen changing clubs and or ball also.

I00 hole with a ball and retiring it. CAN ANYONE TIE OR BEAT THAT?

The Surge!

Jim Benjamin,

Re: 10 second practice swing.

I have a few students who swear by it as that practice often with the super slow swing as I call it.

I think it works well as all sensitivity mentally and physically are extremely elevated if one has the personality and tempo to swing that slow.

I am type A and swinging that slow is difficult. If I do a count to 10 and someone else counts to 10 I get there in Ferrari time and they get there in Chevy Vega time.

But overall, if it works for you...go for it.

The Surge!

To Rodney Anderson,

RE: Medicus Driver

I have 2 of the original Medicus 5 irons that I believe came out in the late 80's to early 90's when most swing instruction was fairly vertical but with a big 90 degree turn. It worked well as that is why I bought them and recommended them as a good training aid.

BUT...over the years from the early 90's as the swing changed from vertical to rotational and the hand position at the top of the backswing kept going flatter from 12 to 10 o'clock the Medicus hinge kept changing to accommodate the flatter plane. And now they have a double hinge which I suspect is needed for the flatter plane.

I have not tried the new ones in years, But as I said above, I suspect they are set for the flatter rotational swing and thus would not work well if at all for us vertical swingers.

The Surge!

To Rodney

I, too, have the Medicus 5 iron, dual hinge. I have to agree with Amos, in that it would be good for the rotational swing, but I also have my doubts that it would work for the PPGS 3/4 limited turn. I tried it and it just didn't seem to work the way it should.

Jeff G.

Boy I miss golfing, as I look out over the golf course covered with snow!!! What can I do to keep up with my swing in the winter.

As I said before I just passed my third summer of golf! Not keeping score yet, just trying to keep my swing good.

thanks for all your help and it has helped!

marilyn

Don,
I ordered your video's a few weeks ago and have only had a chance to play two rounds since watching the video's. All my shots are definitely much more on line some as straight as an arrow, right to the pin.
I will have to say I was sceptical as I have take a number of golf lessons and they always seemed to cause more problems. I felt I was destin to be a 10 HC. Last week I shot a 78 today I shot 78 again with only one bird. I feel that your technic is the best golf investment anyone can make. My tendency in the past has been to draw the ball, except that to often it would turn into a hook and wind up to far left of the target. No pulls at all today! YEA.

Thanks
Bob Greer

If I make it through the around with the same ball its time to party. Were I play every hole has many water hazards. I do take practice swings but maybe to fast .will slow them down today. I also am getting better with my irons but my short chips and woods not so. I can see when I finish my swing the ball is going right were I am pointed but many times it's to the right or left. I need to ingrain finishing at the target. Any way working away hope to see a better score but my friends are telling me I am striking the ball better.

I have read before that practicing your swing in slow motion is good too. I mean where it takes 10 seconds for one swing. It helps ingrain your swing to your subconcious. I would think a combination of super slow swings and then some low power swings suggested by "The Surge" would work great together. These would be great to practice indoors or in the garage at home.

to Rodney:


I have not used the Medicus Driver -- but I have tried the earlier Medicus "5 iron" with the single hinge. It worked very well for a ROTATIONAL swing plane trainer but I have my doubts as to it helping a PPGS type VERTICAL swing.

Therefore I would be very cautious of usingthe Medicus Driver with the PPGS system -- but I could be entirely wrong also

Good Golfing

Amos

To SURGE:

RIGHT ON BROTHER!!

The practice swing should definitely be "slow and perfect" -- I have always used a practice swing at about 1/2 to 3/4 the speed of the "real swing" -- generally one practice swing and GO -- but if I don''t like the first practice swing, then try it again.

As to golf balls, I have a rule -- "RETIRE the ball after 100 holes" -- I have about 6 or 7 "retired balls" on the mantle -- and many that made it in the "90's" before being lost, usually to a water hazard. You asked us to keep stats -- and I can tell you this -- in nearly 100 rounds of golf this year, I have hit TWO balls out of bounds.

And I have curious stat that I would appreciate your comment -- if you condsider an 18 hole round as "3 sets of 6" - -then I generally score BEST on the FIRST six, and second best on the LAST six (occasionally they reverse) -- but the middle six holes are consistently the "worst" six.

Also a thought on swing improvements vs scoring. When you start hitting the ball straighter and longer -- then deciding the correct club for your next shot may be problamatical -- ie. I usally hit a 5 iron from this distance -- but with with improved ball striking, is it now a 6 ?" This has to be factored into the "am I improving equation also" --- making correct decisions, based on improved "playing" It may take a while for improved scoring to follow improved ball striking.

Just my thoughts on the matter

Amos

Surge, been using your PP golf swing for just two weeks and have seen a huge improvement in ball stiking with my irons. I am hitting the irons solid, straight, and further. I am still chunking some shots but am working on swinging up and through the ball. I have found that I have to modify the back swing for my woods. When I try to go "up the tree" with my woods I am mishitting. Any suggestions.

So far this has been a great learning experience for me. Also, I find your videos to be very helpful. You and DJ have a very common sense approach to teaching the game of golf. Glad that I signed on.

Ron I

Speaking of practice swings, has anyone had any experience with the training aid known as the Medicus Driver? This is the double-hinged driver advertised on the golf channel by Mark O"Meara and Hank Haney. Would it be appropriate to use for the PPGS system?
I plan to buy one and will let you know how it works out.
Thanks.

Rodney

I've only done that a few times in 32 yrs of plaing golf. But, I got a good feeling about doing it more often with my new swing : ) \ .