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How many times have you been on the same line as another player and watched their putt to see the roll. They make the putt or roll it dead stiff and you are sure the line is correct. Then you putt the same line and your ball does something completely different. What just happened? Jon asks if it is it the ball.
jon divots says:
Are golf balls still unbalanced? Quite often two of us putt on the same line and one ball would roll straight to the hole and the other would veer off in a different direction, or would skip along instead of rolling along smoothly, especially when hit fairly briskly on a longer putt.
Surge says:
Jon, I can say with certainty that if you are playing brand name quality golf balls, meaning they are not X-outs, then you need not worry about your golf balls not being balanced. Golf ball technology and manufacturing have reached the point that quality control for all the major companies, checking all aspects of the ball, means that no unbalanced balls are slipping into a sleeve to end up for sale. I have been told that many of the X – outs sold are good balls and have, in most cases, been X’ed out for cosmetics, not performance, as an unbalanced ball would be. Also, if a ball was unbalanced, you would know it before you got to the green because it would do some crazy things in flight. When you hit, it would wobble or upshot and dive or slice, then draw in flight if it were out of balance or off center.
One cause of the same line having a different roll out could be the result of “different strokes for different folks.” By that I mean one player’s stroke may put a pure over spin roll on his ball which will give the ball a pure roll holding a tight line. Another player may have a cut stroke or a hook or closing the face stroke, putting a little to a lot of side spin on the ball. This will cause the ball to spin off the starting line and thus end up farther from the hole even when started on the same line.
Another big cause can be the grain on a green. Even with the same stroke, grain can cause a ball to bounce or can cause more side spin, pushing or pulling the ball off line. Putting dead into the grain tends to cause the ball to bounce. Once it bounces it can go dead straight, as we saw in Tiger’s last putt on the 72nd hole to tie Rocco Mediate for the 08 US Open and send it into a Monday playoff. His ball bounced 4 or 5 times and the aiming line stayed perfectly in place and just kept on trucking rolling end over end and into the hole. It could easily have gotten kicked off line and missed. Cross grain putts can really be pushed or pulled off line by the grain, as the ball will roll and curve more in the direction of the grain.
The last cause of similar line puts going off line is the surface of the green. It is, to say the least, imperfect. And as the day wears on, the green wears out (pun intended) and the grass grows. The green wears out in that as every golfer walks they leave footprints. When every golfer holes a putt and goes to the hole to get it out, their last step is within a foot of the hole when they bend over to reach in for the ball. All their weight is pressed downward through the ball of their foot into the green, creating what Dave Pelz calls “The Lumpy Donut” around the hole.
The Lumpy Donut is a depression around 9 inches to a foot from the hole that can cause a ball slowing down to go into the donut and come out completely off line. Dave discusses the Lumpy Donut and all the irregularities of the green and changes due to playing and grass growth in his first book “Putting Like the Pros.” It is a great read and also is chock fill of putting tests he conducted. The stats that came from the tests can really help you figure out the ins and outs of putting.
So, Jon, it is highly unlikely the ball is the problem on missed putts on the same line. It is a host of a whole lot of other variables that only add to the dilemma, delight and despair that can be thrown at us from this great game we call Golf.
In case ya’ll never thought about it, GOLF spelled backwards is FLOG! And, Webster’s Dictionary defines FLOG as “to whip, to BEAT WITH A STICK.” You think the Scots tricked us by flipping the real name of the game backwards to create more appeal to play. Is it is better to go golfing or flogging?
The Surge!
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Tell me what you're thinking... and what part of the golf swing, or this great game... you'd like to know more about. If you want your pic to show with your comment, go get a 
For me, it is clearly “FLOG”.
It is my opinion that the advent of using soft spikes has ruined the greens. Now we have all the little indentations from the soft spikes. instead of the the spike type holes from the metal. What do you think
Many of my great moments of golf were not skyrocketing down the fairway 300 yards, but hitting and then watching it fly straight up like a rocket and then back down, almost hitting the tee itself. Lee Trevino taught, “Club on the ground, then tee the ball halfway over the clubface (on regular drivers – or back then wooden). What is happening with this physics phenomena? Getta bigger club?
The intricacies and inconsistencies of putting phenomena have also been addressed by the NASA space engineer turned putting wizard to the pros, whose name escapes me, but bottom line, twelve balls dropped from a putting “iron Byron”,contraption of his, did not all go into the hole. He works with Phil Mickelson and a vast array of other top putting and shortgame wizards, statistically I think 2 out of the twelve failed to go in. Tiger’s commercial about failing to allow for “planetary motion or attraction or whatever, is not so strange when it comes to rolling the little ball upon the big ball into the little cup that is “all empty” and “half full.” ” Words, words, words,” and then there are phenomena, and the plague to use words to interpret the phenomena. “There is no such thing as perfection in golf or life.” I think that is why the shepherds created a “game;” isn’t it Tiger who admits “I am imperfect and human.”? Not even a Surge’s” expectations can “rule the world.” “There are more things on heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your philosphy, Horatio!”
I like your approach to the game. Thanks and keep going.
How did you get the name “The Surge?”
Surge,
Keep the cards and letters coming. I read them all.
Am in the process of transitioning over to your system. Old habits are hard to break but I’m determined and am seeing progress. Find the hardest part is getting my setup just right, consistent, comfortable, natural, and balanced. Cannot overemphasize BALANCE. When I do achieve the proper setup, I can feel it and know I’m going to strike the ball well before I ever start my takeaway. Remembering to grip the club firmly is also a very important key for me. I seems to minimize/eliminate the wrist cock – one less moving joint to deal with. As they say, “Some days you eat the bear, some days the bear eats you.” AKA Golf.
Thanks,
Phil B.
Tiger does two things that few others do when putting. First is the ability to roll the ball end over end. To achieve this the putter must have 3-4 degrees of effective loft at impact and strike the ball at the bottom dead center of the swing. What this does is to slightly loft the ball and start to spin it with out skidding. This is what gives the ball the ability to take the bounces with out going off line. This is similar to the gyroscope that bounces back up when knocked over.
Second and something I rarely see even from touring pros, AIM! Tiger’s eyes look down the line. When a good player gets under pressure he will swing the club where his eyes look and most look to the push side of the target line. This happens when the front shoulder is higher than the back shoulder. The best example of this problem is Phil Mickelson. He is a fantastic putter but misses short putts very unexpectedly.
Surge and all:
Here’s something to think about, something that physicists have known for a little while. Imagine the following scenarios: a golf robot hits identical drives into a calm fairway — do all the balls end up in a perfectly tidy heap? A pool playing robot hits identical shots starting with an identical ball configuration on the table — are the ball configurations at the end of each shot the same?
The short answer is no. Something called chaos happens (physicists call this “Deterministic Chaos”). Tiny, even infinitesimal variations in the initial conditions, create large variations in the end result. Look up the “Butterfly Effect” online.
Golf is certainly subject to chaos. Indeed chaos is a far more dominant effect in golf than most golfers are aware of or choose to let on. I have seen, first hand, virgin balls removed from a temperature/humidity controlled case and struck by a golf robot programmed to hit an identical shot with the same club over and over, driven into a manicured, wind-screened fairway, and, guess what, the ball scatter diameter was over 10 yards.
At the point of impact, tiny variations — the little bit of scoring on the ball, the tuft of grass in front of the ball, the dirt in the grooves of the club, combine with larger variations induced during flight (wind turbulence), conspire to ensure that no two shots will do exactly the same thing. That is, of course, assuming the shots are identical.
This underlying and profound subtlety is one of those things that makes golf so challenging, infuriating, fascinating and fun!
One of the problems I see both in amateurs and pros is that the have a tendency to slap the ball rather than stroke the ball. I use a long stroke when I put whether it is a 30 footer or a 2 footer. It is the speed of the stroke than determines the distance. It also allows for a smoother ball roll. While the bounce may work for Tiger, few of us play on pro courses and generally even with good public courses, the greens leave a lot to be desired. The best example is public vs country clubs which is where pros generally play. Even a tap in should be a stroke putt and not a slap. I am a pretty good putter, and those I play with like me for my putting – my driving is another story – straight but short.
Don,
Your Peak Performance system ( alignment) has helped me ALOT in striking the ball and overall distance.
One problem – My Putting ! I have no consistency at all and every day is an adventure. Putts of 2 feet range are a challenge at times. I am looking for the basics to work on because I am getting pretty good and practicing ( the wrong Stroke ) Is it my alignment?
Any help is appreciated
Bill
I have noticed, as well, that golf spelled backwards is “FLOG”. Most days, thankfully, golfing is better than flogging, but every once in a while…
There is a section in the rules of golf called “rub of the green”. If we play in the right frame of mind I think we can be thankful for this serendipitous aspect of our game and that we have the opportunity to determine how we are going to deal with it. I hit a drive that kicks into the fairway while yours, on the same line, kicks into the bunker. Hotly contested tournaments often go to the golfer who got the right break at the right time. Once the ball leaves the clubface there is nothing you can do about it, so I guess our jobs as golfers is to be in control of what happens before impact and as best we can; after that, learn to accept whatever happens.
One of the best books I ever read on putting is called “Putting Out of Your Mind.” And the gist of it is this: you should never judge the success of a putt by whether it goes in or not. Many factors can keep a perfect putt from going in the hole. Instead judge your putts based on your preparation and your execution. If you followed your pre-shot process and made a good stroke, then it was a successful putt.
I don’t think it is accurate to say that no unbalanced balls are coming from major makers. I have one of those small battery powered spinning devices that spins the ball at a high RPM. After spinning for a half minute or so you can make a mark on the ball. I have tested the result by spinning the same ball several times and the mark will always appear as it did on the first spin verifying that the balls are not balanced. I don’t believe companies have the ability to produce perfectly balanced balls.
After making great progress in ball striking, I hit the wall this weekend. Two rounds felft like punishment. I will regroup, reread, and start all over again. This past week during practice, I struct the ball with consistency that allowed me to control trajectory and it was effortless. My shots this weekend started on target and hooked left, across the fairway or across the green. I could not get the feel of pulling with my left hand. I am a former single plane, right hand pusher, and I believe this is what I was doing. Any help is appreciated.
Re the put not holding its line, you didnt mention how the different putter faces can affect the roll of the ball.
I now have a Yes putter with the C Groove and it definatly rolls sooner with less jump of the face and holds the line better than my old Oddssey two ball putter.
thanks for all the tips i have drop 10 plus strokes around
Surge,
Help! I have a problem with weight transfer.Almost every shot(particularly my drives) I am falling away and play off the back foot.I have tried all sorts of things but nothing seems to work, can you advise how I can ovewrcome this annoyong problem?
ps your PPs system has added 20-30 yards onto my drives but if I could keep my front foot on the ground it would probably be more.
Don,
I like Barry have the same problem of falling back on the back foot when using the driver and most fairway woods.
I have asked before if there is a practice to illiminate this BIG problem I have had most of my golfing life?
About now you are probably saying whats so hard about transferring your weight to the front foot!
I sure wish I knew why?
Rod
Surge,
My biggest problem is within my putting.There are days when a 2 foot putt is a major challenge. Those close to me say that I am ALIGNED way off and I compensate on my stroke. When I am aligned good, my storke — 0 complaints.
There are very basic golfers who putt better than I. Here on paper, I say it is bad, But … my putting is really, really bad. Say you hitting balls on the range today and tomorrow – a major challenge to put the ball in the air.
Can you help me?
I heard it was called “golf” because all the other 4 letter words were used up!!!!!
You are all wrong about the derivation of the word “golf”. The Scots, in their inimitable way, wanted to get away from the missus for a few hours and their club rule stipulated “Gentlemen Only, Ladies Forbidden”.
Interesting comments and I agree entirely about the stroke’s influence on roll. I will sometimes hit a putt with an inside out swing (unintentionally) and it will move far more than a putt struck “up the line.”
However, I do question your comment about it not being the ball.
1) My first question is regarding the Wilson True ball. Wasn’t the whole marketing pitch for this ball the fact that a large percentage of balls coming off production lines were not truly round. That was supposed to be the selling point of the True? Was that all marketing hype?
2) David Lake (founder of 1Iron Golf) wrote an interesting article on the consistency of golf balls (http://archive.constantcontact.com/fs015/1101452092206/archive/1102065914653.html). He makes several interesting comments and recommendations about balls (including the need to play one type of ball and sticking with it so that you know what to expect from your ball each time you strike it, particularly around the greens).
David makes a couple of comments about balls that are related to their consistency:
- That balls, particularly wound balls, actually go out of round under normal playing conditions. He said that there is a gizmo, which you can buy from golf shops, that has a round hole in it that a golf ball will just fit through. David claims that if you hit a ball with any kind of power, if you were to take a ball that will fit through the hole on the first tee, it will not fit through the hole by the eighth or ninth tee. (He also claims that he has done tests on new balls and that he found that about 1 in 20 right out of the package did not fit through the hole on this gizmo.)
- That the weight of a ball is never centred. He says that this is why some people use a spinner to find and mark the ball’s centre of gravity. By doing so, they can align the ball so that it flies truer off the tee and rolls truer on the green.
(As an aside, for those of you who fish balls from ponds, David also claims that the physical characteristics of a ball change significantly after only a short time under water, so a ball that has been in a pond for any length of time is worthless.)
I would be interested in Don’s take on this. If these claims are true, I would think that the pros would have their caddies spending a quite a bit of time testing balls before stocking the bag.
I am a renowned local amateur golfer, multiple district champion. I am 61 years young and play off 4. Only on one occasion in my golfing life have I been beaten by the professional in my group while playing in pro ams. My irons (blades) are 20 years old and my hickory putter (St Andrews Demon) is over 100 years old. It will see me out. The Demon has a slight loft with a dense (forged) blade giving the ball a slight elevation on contact. Coupled with this my instinctive putting style/stroke adds a slight topspin on impact. Both my wrists and arms are involved. On the first green I always get the ball to the hole, even if it shoots past. You start the round by creeping up, you finish the round by over-shooting. Never be short with the first put, the feel for the entire round comes from it. Merry Xmas Surge. When will DJ come Down Under (Australia)?
Re: inconsistent results achieved by mechanical putting and driving machines.
Ed and A Parchaser raise some interesting points concerning ‘Iron Byron, the Putter’ missing the odd put and: ‘Iron Byron, the Driver’ scattering its drives when the balls are all hit under the same conditions.
During my National Service (Army) I was a Vickers machine gunner. When the gun was clamped down and fired from a fixed tripod the shot pattern created a ‘beaten zone’ or shot scatter roughly in the shape of a leaf. My memory is somewhat dim after 50 years, so these figures may be inexact, but they are in the ball park. The gun was most effective in the range of 800 – 1200 yards and that was the ‘beaten zone’. Theoretically, any enemy troops – standing up – within the beaten zone would be hit. The beaten zone also extended laterally. I think that lateral beaten zone was about half the forward beaten zone. ( ballistics experts may clarify this matter).
Both the machine gun shot scatter and the Iron Byron golf ball scatter clearly demonstrates that many factors influence the outcome of a golf shot.
Cheers.
to Barry and Rod:
see if this suggestion helps :
As your backswing “up the tree” ends, try to feel a “push” forward from your reight (rear) big toe/ball of foot area. This creates the ” forward bump” and should plant your forward foot firmly on the ground. Caution: this is NOT a “significant” weight transfer — that comes later in the downsing. Immediately in conjungation with the the “toe push”, start the dowwing.
Also, try to check you right (rear) knee — if it is collasping” (increased bending) then you are forced to “swing around” the right (rear) leg — and your left (forward) leg will certainly fly into the air.
Hope this helps
Amos
Surge
I am working very hard on PPGS system. My biggest problem is transfering the weight back to right side ( Left Handed) I just haven’t got the BUMP and the upper body is going to early.
I really enjoy reading the comments and the tips each day.
Again, thanks
A number of years ago Golf Magazine had a “contest” for the best new technical info in golf. I spent many hours investigating the effects of a putter hitting on the circumference of the ball vs. a hit that was partially on a dimple. The results were amazing. The “putter” was a pendulum made with precision bearings. The target was a ground flat piece of steel with a typewriter ribbon on the face. Strips of paper were then attached to the target face. Many brands of balls were used in the test, from the cheapest to the most expensive. All tests were done on a level pool table with the “putter” firmly fixed to the table. The target was also firmly attached to the table. All target papers were identified and sent with the contest submission with each ball’s identification clearly identified. All balls were accurately placed with fixturing to correctly orient the dimple pattern to the putter’s strike point on the ball.
Remarkably, the contest winner was never identified. No winner was ever announced. My calls to the management of the magazine were never answered. What do you suppose the problem was????? Did the wrong ball win?
to Kelly:
I don’t know if SURGE wants to “field” this or not — but here on my take on it:
1: for wound ball technology, right on. but maybe I shop in the wriong places — Does anyone still make “wound” balls?
2. I am not familar with the Wilson True ball- I do know that due to various manufacturing processes, no ball is perfectly round. They are round within Engineering/Manufacturing tolerances which may vary from manufacturer to manufacturer. Perhaps the Wilson True was made to a “higher standard” ? Say round to within .001 ” rathter than .01 from other manufaturers.
3. When struck with reasonable velocity, ALL balls will “compress” of “deform” from a round shape to an oval shape — and do this through several cycles before returning to orignal round shape. After a certain number of hits, dependent primarily on cuub head speed, a “permanent set” of “deformation” will appear — the higher the club head speed the sooner this will happen.
So stronger players would need to change balls more frequently than weaker players.
4. Solid core 2-piece balls(core and cover only) should be very near to round, due to the molding process. 3-piece balls with another “layer” mya present a problem with “center of graivity” control — I have no IDEAS regarding how the various manufacturers could/or do control this.
5. As for “water balls” — in the days of the wound balls, covers were not trully waterproof and over time water could leak in and cause swelling. I believe the modern Surleyn type covers are much nearer to waterproof. A ball retrieved from the water within a few minutes should be almost as good as new. However, if it has been under water for hours or perhaps days — then all bets are off.
My thoughts on the subject
Amos
Putting practice.
Many years ago,a man wrote a small book, detailing his experiments with hitting 10,000 putts.(that may have even been the title of the book). Some of his findings included (a): achieving precision and a high rate of success with carpet putting did not necessarily carry over to putting on grass greens. He correctly noted that whilst the carpet environment remained stable, the grass environment changed constantly.
(b) putting accuracy is enhanced by getting your eye level as close to the ground as possible and by gripping the shaft close to the putter head. He extended the grip by wrapping tape around the shaft, down to about 12 inches above the putter head.With his bottom hand and eye level down low, with a crouched stance, he claimed that he drained 1000 straight putts from 4 feet.
(He probably walked around like Groucho Marx after bending over for 1000 putts)
cheers.
To Barry, Rod, and Amos
When I started playing Golf in July, I had the same problem. It was suggested that I take some practice swings where, during my follow thru, I take a step forward with my back foot (right if right handed) so that I “trained” myself to transfer the weight to my left foot. It really helped. Hope this helps everyone…
Dave Pelz is the individual I had in mind, thanks Randy.
Bottom line, “no such thing as perfection in gold;” and, have fun with the phenomenal game in it inconsistencies and natural variations. Thanks guys, enjoy!
For those with putting woes,, there is a solution,, Go to theputtingzone.com Goeff Mangum knows more about
putting then the next 20 experts combined.. He has made a study of it for over 20 years,, I cant belive people are still talking about the “lumpy doughnut”"” That is 1970’s stuff. Especially read answers to questions in his forum section!!!
Kelly (Amos);
Nope, no more wound balls and these did get out of round very easily. The Wilson True ball was not hyped as being round but Balanced. That meant that the center was just that, in the center and that the cover was equa distance all the way around. So, when struck, it flew straighter and putted true. No truth to the water deal. Balata covers would asorb water, Surlyn won’t. Wilson did cause other companies to step up to the plate and improve their processes. The playing field has pretty much been leveled. You can buy one of the spinner deals and put the ball in it. If it is balanced it will come up to a different spot each time. I use to use one but after testing so many balls as seeing that they were indeed balanced, I quit. Another way to do the same thing is to put a fair amount of epson’s salt in a bowl of water then put the balls in the solution. Once they stop spinning, mark the top of the ball with a dot then get the balls moving again. If they come back with the dot on top you’ll know they are not balanced but the spot you have marked is the light side and you would strike or putt the ball with the spot up so it moves heavy over light and not heavy on one side and light on the other as this will cause drift. This is what the OLD PROS used to do. Hope this helps!
Thanks Amos and J. Griffin. These are interesting insights into ball improvements. I once heard Tiger say that changes to balls had impacted the game more than changes in clubs.
Mr. Trahan, I have all your tips that I have received in my e/mail saved folder. A lot of them do make sense. I also do not just read them I practice what I read. I have just gotten back into the game since suffering a vehichle accident. My clubs were so old even before I was robbing myself of distance. I now have a new set of MIZUNO’S which help me out a lot. Now I feel I need to upgrade my driver with technology. Yesterday I finally broke a 100 I shot a 96 at a difficult course. YEA!!! I’ll be back into the swing of things weather permitting. Thank you for the knowledge.
Don, i found that it is not the lumpy donut , its the donut effect caused by the greens keeper putting in anew bored hole,the bore machine when used drills into the ground, as he pulls the core out it leaves round a round dome in the diamerter , hence the donut effect. the grees keeper has another tool most times not used for whatever reason, this tools is a flat piece of steel with ahandel down the center, the greens keeper than tamps down the bored after the has been placed. PS as for those people looking for acure hitting off the back, try to take a step with the left fooft just befor impact zone , very close to a baseball swing,itry it and its a good drill. left for RH. thanks
Surge,
I spin every ball on my Check-go, mark the top, turn the ball over and spin and mark again. I notice that sometimes, even with the top name brands, when I align the two marks, using the Line-em-up, the spots are farther apart on one side than on the other side of a straight line (circumference) around the ball, connecting the two marks.
I have had some balls that were visibly off-centered, holding the two marks (the axes of the “diameter”) in my index finger and thumb.
I make it a point to keep the two axes centered on both ends of the Line-em-up to get a line around the ball that will give me a true roll.
Thanks, Surge!