Dave Lyon says:
Don, on your homepage, the PPGS sequence shows the clubhead going behind your head into the Sacred Burial Ground (SBG). Is it only your left hand that musn’t go into the SBG? I was under the impression that the clubhead must not venture there. Please clarify.
Good question and Dave received an answer to his question right after he wrote it that said that the SBG was behind the back and not the head. This is somewhat correct but too vague and so to clear up this point, here goes.
For starters, I have seen in the blogs the SBG called the “Dead Zone” and the “Cemetery” and a few others which are appropriate. I will define the SBG by referring to the Foundations Swing Manual Page 86…Secret # 3.
Secret # 3: You turn only to the toe line in the backswing and forward upswing. Key: you must stay out of the “Sacred Burial Ground,” that area in a square or semi-circle behind your toe line.
Next, we will look at Chapter 11titled, “How to Make a Peak Performance Golf Swing.” On page 97 under the section titled “Take-Away & Turn” Face On picture views, point # 5 states: Club at 9 o’clock, toe up with the club and left arm OVER toe line
There is a note: You turn your shoulders only as much as it takes to get your left arm and club over your toe line. Then it’s all UP. The transition from clubhead into the mitt, the up the tree must be smooth and it must flow with a feeling and sense of an upward, circular motion. Down the line view, point # 3 states: left arm and shaft are over toe line. # 4 states: This is the end of your backswing turn: 70 degrees maximum. From here on, it’s all lift. Keep palms perpendicular and the club at 12:00 o’clock.
Follow through at 3:00 o’clock on page 103 in the face on section #1 states: Shaft of the club is at 3:00 o’clock, toe up in the mitt. Right arm and shaft are over toe line. #3 states: Palms perpendicular. Down the line on page 104 #1 states: club toe up in the mitt. #2 states: right arm and shaft are over the toe line. #4 states: Palms Perpendicular.
Final Thoughts on Page 107 #2 states: Keep your palms perpendicular to the ground throughout the swing. Point # 3 states: Maybe more important than anything else: In your backswing, you need to turn only as much as it takes to get our left arm and shaft over your toes – that’s a maximum of 70 degrees! Then it’s all lift to the ¾ thumbs up position. Same for the follow through. “Keep it over your toe line!
The Sacred Burial Ground is defined by the toe line. It is the boundary that the impact zone, from in the forward upswing when the club swinging to impact, gets to 9’00 o’clock and is parallel to the ground, and after impact to 3:00 o’clock the club is parallel to the ground. The left arm must swing over and be over the toe line and not behind it in the Sacred Burial Ground. This is what produces an on-on-and-on square impact.
Now to address your question about the club head must not venture into the SBG, I am going to get a little technical here and I hope I don’t regret it. The club is swung on an inclined plane because we stand beside the ball and have our spine tilted forward. The left arm, from the shoulder to the elbow, is over the toe line at the top of the backswing. The inclined plane causes the arm, from below the elbow to the hand, and the club, when lifted to the top of the backswing, over the center of the right shoulder, close to the head to cross a little past the toe line.
The Key is the upper arm is still over the toe line and thus the club will be pulled down to impact on-on-and-on the aiming line and will remain on the aiming line in the follow through, with the right arm and club covering the toe line at the 3:00 o’clock club parallel to the ground position as you swing up and stand up to the T – Finish.
The point to be emphasized here is that in a full 90 degree or more shoulder turn at the top of the backswing, the entire left (forward) arm and club are behind the toe line and thus deep into the sacred burial ground. There is no direct straight line down to an on-on-and-on impact from there. The body has to turn quickly to the left to pull the arms and club up and around in front of the body to the aiming line, which is now an outside to in swing path. The big shoulder and torso turn is the #1 cause of the outside to in path. The cure is the PPGS limited turn ¾ backswing, keeping the left arm over the toe line and staying out of the Sacred Burial Ground. This way, from the top of the backswing, we can swing straight down the aiming line for an on-on-and-on square impact to hit it solid and straight.
The Surge!
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To accomplish the full follow through and keep my club head square and not outside in, I envision throwing a frisby with my right hand. As a lefthander that is my top hand and this thought process helps me “throw” my club head outward, for me keeping it square, and on the proper line.
Your 3/4 swing has helped keep my slice to a minimum and now I most often hit it straight. Practise will correct the slice eventually!
Thank you.
I agree with the clarification Don. I try to envision a hula hoop hanging from my neck and the other end resting parallel to the toe line. If I follow the arc of the hoop, I can’t venture into the SBG.
don
is the right hand grip different for the wedges as i ve used the same grip from driver to wedges and the wedges always left the club face very open and shot the ball straight right
“over the top” is ingrained. I remember the “two buckets of balls” in the marketing jargon. My belief is that’s a crock. I’ve been playing since age 10 (now 62). Had to quit about 10 years ago due to medical condition. I started again and although I have no doubt that this swing works, my body still remembers the bad habits it had before. I’ll buy maybe 15-20 buckets of balls… but not two! I took a few lessons in Houston way back in 1979 (Freddie Haas method). Taught the swing in steps with stopping basically every quarter turn of the clockface. I still have problems getting rid of stopping at the top from 30 years ago! Sometimes I just can’t get the club down (often due to my weight over my left side at the top… I know, overswinging!) I’ll ingrain some memory soon, but not just yet.
Don,
I just returned from a double hip replacement. I missed the “half-off” offer you gave my friend. If this offer is still available, I would be very interested. Please let me know.
Sounds funny – Shot 3 over on the front nine…
I play with 15 handicap and tried a limited 3/4 back swing this weekend. The iron shots were straight and the distance unaffected. What was very different was the sound of the ball of the club face. Duller than normal and an odd feeling…maybe this is what a good hit feels and sounds like?
Don
Please explain the stance, primarily the “knees over the feet”. To me that sounds like you are standing bopwlegged. Maybe I’m not grasping the concept. Thanks.
Hi Don,
Your reponse referring to the face-on 9:00 photo got me thinking about a completely different issue, hip turn. I have been working on PPGS swing for about 6 weeks. An issue I got confused on was the hip turn. I note in the page 97 face-on photo that you appear not have turned your hips at all, they seem square to the toe-line and, of course, the target line. In your description of the take away being 1-piece you describe the take away being initiated by the hips, not hands or shoulders, so the hips should have turned almost immediately. Yet clearly the turn you have made to the toe line appears not to have inlcuded a hip turn. In the face-on 12 o’clock photo on page 99 I see a hip turn.
The question is do the hips turn at the beginning of the take away or is it combined with the club/arm lift once the club & left arm reaches the toe line? I was struggling the past week or two because I had not used any hip turn, trying to keep the hips quiet through the whole back swing. Reading your Foundations manual before this weekend’s foray onto the links I found the hip turn reference in the 1-piece take away description and introduced that into my weekend play. I could not start my take away with the hips however so I made the small turn and made the hip turn during the club lift which seemed to work remarkably well and appears to match the photo sequence.
Any thoughts or comments on the hip turn timing?
Many thanks….Gary
Surge,
The swing is is coming along suprisingly quick. With the driver (i’m hitting it very solid and straight) i’m hitting it very high in the sweet spot. i have the top of the ball teed level with the top of the club- is there an adjustment i need to make to my swing or set up; to get my ball striking position lower in the sweet spot and not so close to the top of the club. i’m hitting a 460 cc r9. thanks for your help and by the way by back is loving this new swing!
I am a little confused regarding a few points of the swing.
The toe line is around 18″ behind the ball. Taking a clubhead STRAIGHT BACK to the mitt and then straight up would mean that the clubhead is to remain around 18″ in front of the toe line. However, the club and left arm are to be OVER the toe line at the top of the backswing. That means that the clubhead needs to move straight back around 18″ and then move forwards on the forward swing to get back in line with the ball.
Am I missing something with these two lines and the meaning of STRAIGHT as in straight back or straight up.
Hi Don,
I’m impressed by the pictures and directions for PPGS in your manual. I have one question relating to the takeaway where it says,” lift arms from shoulders like throwing a ball”…Are we to assume we start out with the hips moving as mentioned earlier in your manual? I want to make sure of that since you stated earlier that the initial part of the 70degree turn starts first with the hips and the shoulders almost immediately follow the hips.
Thanks much!
To Gary Marx
In reference to the photo on Pa. 99 of the PPGS manual. You can’t detect any hip movement because of the black clothing Don is wearing. The photo is simply too dark for one to detect the hip initiation.
But be that as it may, when it comes to hip action, one piece take away, lifting the arms, their successful roles in the backswing are all dependent on a pure swing motion. Swing the clubhead with your hands and evertything else will fall into place — automatically!
Response to Alan McVay – You purchased the Digital Online version and an E-MAIL has been sent sent to you on how to access the website. I hope this clarifies the issue, thanks PPGS Customer Support.
Hey Serge, It is amazing what we miss when we are reading the manual, Wow, big help on this one. It feels much more comfortable at the top following that clarification See you on the short grass, Jack
Surge I have been trying your system and it is quite simple and direction wise i’m very successful but distance wise i am very short, i hit a 7 iron about 125 yds with a swing speed of about 65mph. I hit the ball very high and in order to flatten out my swing path i must enter the SBG and swing around my body. Any help?
Thanks again for the great information. I thought you might clarify things by pointing out how that clock is facing. Is the clock facing you in the golf position or parallel with the right foot (or facing the target line. Sometimes I think I understand the clock image but get confused with some of your other suggestions.
I got to play twice this weekend in shirt sleeves, which in central IL is a real treat. I’ve been working inside on the concepts, so I’ve not played in about a month due to bad weather, work etc. I’ve been playing to a 2 anyway but it took a long time on the practice range to keep that tuned up. And when it goes bad, I pretty much stay on the left side of the golf course. I went 74 / 74 this weekend and if I could have putted, it would have been much lower. That’s with no range balls just tee it up & go. I really concentrated on 70degree turn and keeping the club head / hands over or in front of the toe line. What really stood out was 8 through wedges never left the stick. I might have been long or short but not much left or right unless I was playing for it as it was pretty windy. And the divots were bacon strips.
Looks like I’ll be doing more inside work til I take some time to go to warm weather, but I’ve also noticed that I get greater clubhead speed with less effort, which I’m sure is due to the nearly vertical shaft, i.e. swinging the lighter club. I’m 57 and 5′5″ and 150lbs and I’m getting between 104 and 107 mph consistently with my driver. That ain’t too bad for a geezer. So, I’ll keep working the system.
Bruc Kelso
DON–
I THINK I AM WELL COORDINATED BUT AS I READ AND TRY TO ENVISION GOING FROM ONE MOVEMENT TO ANOTHER I TRY THIS AS I’M READING AND FEEL LIKE A SPASTIC CASE.. IT JUST DOESN’T FEEL LIKE A SMOOTH ATHLETIC MOVEMENT. MORE LIKE PUSH AND PULLING. HOW CAN I “SMOOTH OUT”–MORT GOODKIN
PS-WHAT’S A GRAVITAR
To Mort Goodkin
Great statement and a great question. Pushing and pulling on a golfclub produces leverage and leverage is golf’s number one swing killer! Period end of of paragraph!
You ask, “HOW CAN I “SMOOTH OUT”
The answer is an easy one. Swing the clubhead with your hands. Go to Don’s poat on this site entitled “Words from Warren.” Read and reread Warren’s statement and the comments in reply to his words.
Smoothness with the PPGS is in your future!
I finally figured it out…
I have been struggling with the PPGS with clearing my hips it finally clicked when I remembered you talking about skipping a rock. When skipping a rock, most of my weight is straight over the back foot at the top. When imagining skipping the rock, the weight starts on the right side, arm comes down and the hips clear automatically allowing the weight to easily transfer and to not feel stuck. I hit the ball straighter than ever with everything from my driver to the wedge. Also, no pain in my back – an added bonus.
Thanks!
to Hilltop:
The stance is nearly bow-legged — Don calls it “riding a skinny horse” but to me it imore like riding a FAT horse!
The feet are approximatley under the arm pits, both turned outward about 30 degrees, with ankles, knees and waist bent to achieve your “athetically ready” position, with weight on the arches of your feet — NOT on the heels or the toes, but evenly divided. Note: for me “athetically ready” is a bit more erect than the videos or manual show.
to Ken:
Try to imagine yourself looking at a right handed golfer face on — 3:00 is Horizontal to the REAR — 9:00 is horizonatal to the Front — and of course 12:00 is Vertical
to Clay Shropshire:
Imagine that the catcher is calling for an inside fastball, just above the knees — when you start the swing with a “rotation into the mitt”, your initial clubhead position of 18 inches changes to about 14 to 16 inches — from there the swing is “straight up the tree”
Hope this helps
Amos
all swings work and all swings dont work, it depends on the swinger, if you stick the shaft in your butt and practise hard, and perfect the waggle,you will get a result
Surge, Thanks a bunch for getting technical and clearing the somewhat muddy waters of the SBG. I have learned that when I stay out of the SBG, good things happen! I have been taking lessons for 1-1/2 years and spent most of my time in the SBG and this should not come as a shock but I have not been satisfied with the pace of my progress but I am very happy with it now thanks to you! It only took me one bucket of balls to understand what I needed to do, however, reprogramming my way of doing things is a process and that takes longer, so now I spend much more time practicing on my set up and alignment (since the set up determines the motion) in order to learn the things that you are teaching me and I dont always do things right but when I do, I am able to stay out of the SBG and keep it in the short grass, ie: I hit 12 fairways yesterday and 7 greens in regulation and I only see myself improving!
To Harry
It appears you have an educated posterior that is functional as well as, at the same time,
dramatically versatile!
Be very caereful! You may just be opening yourself up to be the “butt” of everyone’s jokes.
I recently read the Ernest Jones method of swinging the club(similar to Bobby Jones swinging the hands) and it is interesting to compare his simple method of swinging the club and your method of remembering a thousand things. I wonder how Bobby Jones would have handled the PPGS.
Also when are you going to use a larger text size on your daily messages
I think your clairification of where the club head is in relation to the toe line is excellant. I played a lot of baseball in my day and it is surpising simple how hitting a baseball mirrors what you are teaching.
What makes a good ballplayer at the plate? Generally speaking the hands are held high at the top, about 3/4 extension and the bat is usually only a few degrees off vertical and they are square in the box, some more than others.
So how did your instruction help an old ballplayer who is a lefty and was considered a pull-hitter?
First, to me is setting up in the box (tee or home plate) the same way everytime. Great advice. Walk in behind the ball and visualize where you are going to hit it.
Second point is what you said here in this article on the SBG. Your don’t have to be a perfect 90 degrees, not everyone is perfect and the mechanics (my emphasis) are going to be different for each of us.
Third point of your teaching, Finish up square to the target. Sorry Don, never liked pop-tarts by the way but finishing up give you an idea where the ball is going after impact. I now know after your teachings all I have to do is look at the swing finish and I could be happy or well not up the tree. (Big Time Slice)
Keep up the good work, now here is your challenge.
My golf score had not dropped one bit. Yes I am hitting longer and straighter, but the chipping and putting sucks. When will you give more attention to the most important parts of the game here? Looking forward to that.
To John L
Excellent observation about Ernest Jones. Bobby Jones would have been an enthusiastic endorser of the PPGS. He had his share of back problems.
As regards larger text for these posts and messages. That would be too unwieldy and too impractical. That is why most text on all web sites is in the size 12 font.
But wait! There is a grand solution to your dilemma re letter size being larger and thus easier to read. Merely highlight anything to be read and then go to “Page” on your tool bar. Scroll down to “zoom” and select the “percentage” you feel will enlarge the message sufficiently to your liking.
.
To Clay Shropshire:
Think of the tree as behind the toe line, not the catcher’s mitt. It is when your left arm and club reach the toe line that you stop your shoulder turn and then lift the club up the tree, not when the clubhead reaches the catcher’s mitt.
Just a word from your European cousins on this side of the water.
We DO NOT play or watch baseball and have NO idea what you are talking about. Up trees in a catcher mitt? What on earth is that all about? The image of a shaft up my butt – now that IS something I can envisage, but up a catchers mitt? Sorry……….
I reckon you need a non-US manual for the 95% of the world’s population whose only sight of a catchers mitt was in War of the Worlds when Tom Cruise was throwing a ball at his son, who had a strange-looking glove on. Did that have something to do with baseball? He He.
I still have received no explantion of the release other to rotate the forearms. When does this rotation start to take place, at the hips or later? How is the rotation achieved?
for those who need larger type…
highlight any words on this page..then go to VIEW . pick ZOOM and select anything larger than 100%
Don, I ordered your manual recently and am enjoying it. I’ve seen the website for Don Trahan’s Low Country Golf Academy. It says it’s being updated. Do you have a golf school?
To John L
Little trick: press the Ctrl button and then the + button on your key board and your text will enlarge. Ctrl and – and your text will decrease.
To John L & NinerMike
There is a quicker way of increasing or decreasing the text size. Simply hold down the CTRL Key and press the + or – Keys.
John
I saw a ridiculous comment that Bobby Jones would endorse this half baked,half swing theory promoted here. No swing since golf was invented is more opposite these teachings than Bobby Jone’s swing. This dvd nonsense is disputed by EVERY top 100 teacher in the world.I know because I know 20 of them personally and have talked golf theories with them. Every few years some pirate shows up saying all great teachers are wrong. It is the only way they can hook people,Because they have no credibility themselves. They play into the frustration that golfers feel and offer the “new best lesson.” Sadly,they get a few unsuspecting soles who later use the DVDS sold here as drink coasters for their table! VERY expensive drink coasters! (Along the same vein as this product is the HAMMER driver. This inferior piece of rubbish has resurfaced again!! Using the same 15 year old infomercial.)Don’t waste your money on marketing garbage like this E-lesson jibberish! TWO BUCKETS of balls and you will “SEE THE LIGHT!” Really folks-Use your head. If it looks to good to be true–You KNOW the rest!!!
Surge,
You further describe the Sacred Burial Ground on page 86 of your manual as when you swing into it the “arms and club are getting behind the shoulders and body, and moving far from the aiming line”. This means then that there is no direct path for the arms and club back to the aiming line for the on-on-on effect at impact. There is interference to the ideal swing path and the swing adopts, unconsciously, compensatory movements which detracts greatly from the ideal swing.
On page 101 of your manual, Top of Backswing, Down-the-line, point 5 describes the acceptable parameters of the position of a line drawn vertically from the butt of the club to the ground. The backswing is at the 3/4 position and the club (looking down-the-line) is at the twelve o’clock, or light club position, hands and clubhead inline (parallel left to the aiming line -maybe?).
The vertical “line drawn from the butt of the club to the ground” should pass through the “top of your shoelaces” and the acceptable parameters is between the toes and the ankles.
Now would it be fair to say that if the vertical line passes through the centreline of the weight distribution between your arches of your feet (or top of shoelaces) that this is the centreline of the balance point in your stance?
If the hands and clubhead are above the balance point in your stance and you have a direct path to swing back to the aiming line for the on-on-on effect at impact that this is the “ideal” position to start the forward upswing. That is if you swing the clubhead back with your hands to a position above your balance point in your stance that this will facilitate a PPGS? If indeed you proceed to swing the clubhead with the hands about this balance point on the forward upswing.
So a definition of the SBG maybe that upon reaching the top of your backswing your hands and clubhead are starting to get behind your balance point in your stance?
To Richard,
An imperfect cricket analogy for the “into the catcher’s mitt” is as follows. You are batting marginally out of your crease, lined up middle to middle, and receive a pitched up delivery that is heading for middle stump half way up. Without moving your feet swing the bat back to a position where you can just glance the ball past the off stump between wicket keeper and first slip (if you’ve got the guts).
To the broom guy, I hope my boss doesn’t read your blog – he may get ideas on how to save time on housekeeping.
Regards, Craig S
That description clears up the same point I had. The hand, club head and possible some of the lower arm enter the SBG, but the upper arm is over the toe line. I knew that was what you meant and how it had to be but it wasn’t literally clear, or stated as a negative, in your descriptions.
I would like more discussion on the “smooth flow” into the catcher’s mitt, and then up to the top. Literally it could look like Kenny Perry because the line described by the toe is not always on the same plane.
To Jim Davis,
Jim, nobody is perfect. Even you are flawed, as you obviously do not know the difference between ‘Sole’ and ‘Soul’
To Richard
If you search through previous posts there is one which refers to cricket.
As I am Scottish, I found the references tyo the catchers mitt easier to understand. LOL.
Regards
Dear Don,
I have downloaded your 10 most frequent mistakes video’s and i have been practicing and playing with the PPGS for a couple of months now. With one or two exceptions my scores have improved and i am getting more distance. Three years ago at the age of 72 i got down to 9 handicap for the first time, since then my game has deteriorated badly to a point where i was thinking of giving the game up. My handicap had risen to 13 and i was playing more like 23. My scores have improved and 33/34 points in stableford is encouraging, and a net 3 under in a medal has got me back to 12, and i am more enthusiastic about the game.
I have always been able to swing nicely with a full follow through on the practice tee, but tend to hit at the ball with very little follow through on the course. My short game has always been good and has saved many a score. No matter how well i play i am having two or three bad holes in every round which is frustrating. Can you suggest anything that will help me to swing on the course the same way i swing on the range?.
Regards Brian Jago
Hi Don,
A little story about a 2 month layoff.
I live in a suberb of Columbus Ohio so combined with being busy & not so ideal weather this last Saturday was a rear time I had to get perhaps one last season ending round in. Well after I made my way to the practice tee I couldn’t hit my hat – topping everything. When I finally did get some shots airborn they were a very weak push. I said to myself what would the surge say is the problem – Eureka I must be in the sacred burial ground. Instead of playing a round I hit another Jumbo bucket & hit the ball as good or better than I did all season. I discovered I was coming over the top just as you described & was closing down to try & compensate.
Folks, I have never had a line of teaching so easy to self correct as Don’s & by the way it is also much easier to get in a dynamic suppinating position that Hogan talked about if you keep the arms going vertical & hands perpendicular just as the surge says.
Thanks so much for all you do & keep up the good work
John
John Frenchak
Hey Don,Havn’t been playing much do to weather and deer bow season,been in the woods stocking bullwinkle,i’ve got a couple nice does so far and have passed on half a dozen or so bucks waiting for mr right,(bullwinkle)lol,,I still manage to hit a basket or 2 a weak and hitting the ball well on the range,Hopefully it follows me to the course,lol,Ya make it over Ohio way drop me a line,we’ll fix ya up with some jerky and trail balonie,Later God Bless!! Dale
To Jim Davis
Just because you know 20 of the top 100 teachers personally, does not mean that you speak for them, each man has his own opinion and I know that you do not express their opinions perfectly and there is 80 of them that you dont know personally and yet you feel comfortable speaking for them as well. I seriously doubt that any of these top 100 teachers characters are so shallow that they feel the need to go around talking trash about other people. Don Trahan has his very own son and testimonies from people he doesnt even know to prove that he knows what he teaches works.
Happy Golfing!
Ken
Don,
Thanks for your daily tips. Is your method the same as Dalton McCrary’s system? If not, whats the difference? The only thing I can see is that he takes the club back into the mitt closed. Thanks.
To Tom
One big difference between McCrary and Don is Dalton requires a full turn of the shoulders on the backswing. He also demands that the elbows at address be held extremely close to each other a la Ben Hogan. Don asks the elbows to be more relaxed and hence easier to release on the vertical path up to the top.
Hi Don:
I am having trouble hitting my driver with the PPGS. I do not hit as far and I have a problem with direction which I rarely had before.
Please advise.
Bill
Craig63 say’s the following in the 2nd paragraph of his post:
The backswing is at the 3/4 position and the club (looking down-the-line) is at the twelve o’clock, or light club position, hands and clubhead inline (parallel left to the aiming line -maybe?).
Now I understood Don teaches “no cocking or breaking of the wrists” in his 3/4 swing. How on earth then can the club be (looking down the line) when it is in the 12 o’clock position.
John
TO JohnOB
Yours is an excellent question that comes up often on this forum.
I will try to clarify all issues regarding “wrist cock.”
In all swing methodologies, including the PPGS, as the motion of the club is made on the backswing, a hinge is created at the base of both thumbs. This is what creates a 70 t0 90 degree angle of club to arms of and this is what creates golf club lag.
When Don states one should never “cock the wrists,” he means the left wrist must never bend inward nor curl outward on the backswing — it must always remain straight (flat). So cocking the wrist is defined by Don as occurring anytime you cause the left wrist to cave in or bow out on the backswing.
To NinerMike
Thanks for your response, but if what you are saying, Quote (So cocking the wrist is defined by Don as occurring anytime you cause the left wrist to cave in or bow out on the backswing) I think Don needs to clarify this definition further for the benifet of a whole bunch of his subscribers.
I was always of the belief that the wrist movement that allows the wrist (from the base of the thumb) to bend 90 degrees or more was known as “cocking”, and the “cave in” or “bow out” movement was more commonly known as “turning or rolling”, ie; clockwise or counter clockwise.
John
To JohnOB
I completely agree with your assessment. But in the PPGS, it will be Don’s definiton of what constitutes a “wrist cock” that will have to be accepted — until further notice.
This guy Niner mike is a total fool.Besides saying things like “we as homo sapiens” he talks only to see his comments in print. I am sure in real life people ignore him or run away. But when confronted above with the lack of knowledge displayed by Don and himself,he glibly says just believe us”UNTIL FURTHER NOTICE!” What?-After they go and look up what a true wrist cock is,they will fill up your mailbox with a “new” innovation ” to their ridiculous lessons-I use the term lessons very loosely! I see people playing CROSSHAND that have a better grasp on swing dynamics than these two zeros!
About jay newman
This “homo sapien” jumps about and into all the PPGS discussion blogs like a nervous little gnat sniffing around the many scatological dumps he has deposited so indiscriminately. But fortunately, the hundreds of testimonials given by folks attributing the PPGS to their newly found golfing success, trumps, makes insignificantly hilarious his futile attempts to ridicule and disparage the good and great instructor, Don.Trahan.
Take note that he does not capitalize the first letters in his name. This is the predilection of a tiny man with a tiny brain and a tiny narrow view on life and living. Devoid of a “high case” mentality, Jaybird comfortably arranges himself into a “lower case” existence. This reduction to a lower case perspective screams a fundamental insecurity, an insecurity the acquaintances in his life are all too familiar. This type of lower case creature has nothing to offer to we “homo sapiens” except tired boring thoughts that in his own words validates “…he talks only to see his comments in print. …. in real life people ignore him or run away.”
Jaybird, your outburst is really a crying out of the sadness that makes up your reaction to life and living. And what I read into your words, what lurks so clearly behind each and every one of them, is an anger manifested from a massive frustration of not having fulfilled the goals and expectations others have demanded of you all your lifelong days.
Jaybird, if you have a pair, right now, acknowledge that Surge is here to help, not condemn; to encourage, not to ridicule; to educate, not to confuse and mislead. If you do that, your will finally be able to raise your name to an upper case status and I promise, I will be the first to spell your name “J”ay “N”ewmwn.
The essence, the role of being a teacher is to teach students to eventually be able to teach themselves. . Don Trahan is passionate about helping all golfers help themselves. And this is what makes him an excellent teacher.
Hey Jaybird, thank you for instigating this dialog. Your post allows me along with others to honor Don for his commitment and tireless work.
Amen and Namaste.
To JohnOB,
My mistake with the use of the “lightclub” expression for the top of the backsing Down-the-line shot, I should have said the club is “light” as it is in the 12 o’clock position looking from this view. In the face on view the club is at the 3/4 backswing position and so causes a gravitational moment load on the wrists.
The true “lightclub” position is depicted in the two shots on page 99 of the PPGS Foundations manual. Both the face on and down-the-line views show the club at 90 degrees, or dead vertical, in harmony with gravity.
This is the position of minimum gravitational moment loading on the wrists (i.e. weight of the club multiplied by moment arm or lever). The muscles and tendons in the arms and wrist are in “dynamic balance”, they are in their natural state with no “conscience” thought of loading or unloading, and there is little “flexion” or “extension” in the wrists caused by gravitational or centrifugal loading.
The flexion and extension of the wrists is discussed extensively in the Inner Circle Forum, “Surge’s Lesson Tee, The Swing, The “Limited Turn” Backswing, The Limited Turn and the wrists, with Surge’s comment on page3. Below is an excerpt:
Gentleman,
Surge Here. Congratulations to all of you as you are looking at this through a magnifying glass and it looks like with protractors and other measuring devices. Most of you are quite correct. You all wrote so much it is difficult to address each individually and your points so I will hit it generally with references sometimes to individuals and their points. So, if you don’t get mentioned, please don’t feel snubbed, because you all have good observations, made good and constructive comments and everything stayed fair and square with no degrading remarks as I notices. So, here goes.
Bob B. in your first post you mentioned that you agree there is no wrist cock and it must have something to do with the wrists flexing. Also all of your comments on the 135 degree angle of address becoming 90 degrees at the left arm parallel to ground position is correct and due to flexing. You or who ever said it are also correct that some have misinterpreted face on and down the line clock times as to the club/shaft positions and to go to the manual and check it out. (Guys, The manual is critical to understanding the videos and also the pictures. And to understand better don’t forget to READ and UNDERLINE the explanations in the MANUAL. For now, I am going to stay focused on this wrist change from 135 to 90 degrees.
But first, I am going to say that a few days ago a gentlemen called customer service and spoke with my brother Ken. After viewing the videos of DJ and me with a microscope and likely every angle measuring device known to man, he was adamant and very argumentative that DJ and I cocked our wrists in the backswing. He attacked a few other points and was unshakable in his position that we cocked our wrists because the angle at the top of the backswing was different from address. I also the same day read a comment, I believe in here in the Inner Circle Forun where another gentleman took the same position as well as saying that I had a strong grip with wedges thru 7 iron and was OK with the rest of the clubs in the swing video where DJ and I ran the set from SW to Driver. Both said that I “Did note practice what I teach.” His comment was directed at the fact that i say the wrists do not cock and he just proved it. The writer in here was responded to and it took me 2 hours to write the answer to be sure Was correct and fair. Quickly, I have a 3 P palms perpendicular grip, I am not even close to strong… The gentleman who called my brother Ken, called back the next day and continued his barrage of DJ and I cocked our wrists and Ken could say nothing to defend or dissuade him. Ken was so unraveled from what was over an hour of what was between badgering and hammering called me for clarification and what to say or how to handle it if he called again. I know what I write and what I say I know oth of the gentlemen were wrong when they accused me of not practicing what I teach and saying the wrist do not cock or change. So, Guy, where do you think is the first place I went to to build my defense that I e-mailed to Ken so he would have it in print for reference? (that e-mail is pasted right below) I went to the PPGS Foundations Manual where things are explained in pretty good detail to be able to understand the pictures and videos. The answer to the wrists changing is explicitly mentioned and explained starting oon teh last paragraph of page 82 where I say The writs are suppose to stay straight, (and I’ll add relatively straight a, meaning a little FLEXING is OK but not bending and certainly not breaking.cocking in the swing.) I believe read somewhere in the last few day in comments that there is no mention in the manual about the wrists changing during the swing. There is and it is on page 82 & 83. I started out Ken’s e-mail answer by going to Webster’s New World Dictionary and WIkipedia Dictionary and getting the definitions of the terms we are dealing with and are mentioned on Page 82 & 83. So, Gentleman, read my info to Ken to pass on to the caller and it should clear up many of the points, comments and issues brought up by all of you.
Ken,
This should help explain the concept of the wrists staying firm but not straight, and that there is a little bit of flex in my wrists but not cocking at the top of the back swing which is swinging according to human design for maximum muscle performance.
According to Webster’s New World Dictionary :
Flex.. vt…verb 1. to bend (an arm, knee etc,) 2. To shorten and thicken (a muscle) in action.
Flexible…adj…1.able to bend without breaking.
Wikipedia Encyclopedia
FLEXION…In anatomy in a position that is made possible by the joint angle decreasing. The skeletal (bones, cartridge, and ligaments) and muscular (muscles and tendons) systems work together to move the joint into a flexed position. For example the elbow is flexed when the hand is brought closer to the shoulder. The trunk may be flexed toward the legs or the neck to the chest.
The opposite term is EXTENSION, or straightening. Flexion decreases the angle between the bones of the limb at a joint and extension increases therefore making it a bit more bigger than the other one and you can finally touch your toes.
The PPGS Foundation Manual…p. 82 & 83
Well, let’s first start with examining the rock and the string of the left arm and shaft. First, they are suppose to stay straight (and I’ll add relatively straight, meaning a LITTLE FLEXING is OK but not bending and certainly not breaking. But there is one big difference between the the single string and your left arm and club in that they are two different components with different properties and characteristics. The club, while in dynamic motion may flex a little at the top of the backssing in transition, it does not break.
The arm is quite different in that it has two flex or break points in the wrist and the elbow. And like the club in the swing, if we want peak performance, these may flex a little but maintain a taut and activated muscle tone. What they must not do is over flex or break where they loose muscle tone and thus strength.
All flex joint have a range where flexion still maintains muscle tone and balance, but to bend to much and flexion turns into a breakdown and muscle tone and strength is gone.
Don
Don Trahan, PGA Master Professional
The Swing Surgeon
http://www.peakperformancegolfswing.com
Gentleman, I hope these definitions from the dictionary and going to page 82 and 83 will clear up any confusion and get things clear in your minds so you all can really get your PPGS fine tuned and peak performing.
The Surge!
To paraphrase Surge, he basically says this “flexion” and “extension” of the wrists is normal and acceptable because our muscles and tendons are elastic. If they were rigid and brittle then they possibly could snap in the course of making a golf swing.
Extension of the wrists can be explained when taking your grip on the club. Holding the club down the shaft with the right hand and placing the grip into the left hand with the wrist in its natural position, the shaft will be at an angle of not much more than 90 degrees to the forearm. Let go of the right hand and move into the address position, holding the club in the left hand, you will notice that the weight of the club “extends” the wrist downwards. Taking the right hand grip position on the club reduces the load on the left wrist and the flex reduces a little.
This flexing of the wrists is normal, just like loading up the spring in a scale when you step on or settle the suspension in your car when you get in. The wrist flexion is primarily caused by the gravitational moment load of the club on the wrists, i.e. the weight of the club multiplied by the moment arm (the horizontal distance between the centre of mass of the club and the centre of your grip pressure).
Upon swinging the club back to the so called “light club” position this gravitational moment is at a minimum. The muscles and tendons in the arms and wrist unload and in so doing “flex” back to their normal state to remain in “dynamic balance”. This normal flexion accounts for the angular discrepancies in the photo stills in the manual and creates an impression of wrist cocking in the videos.
To fight against this normal flexion would require a conscious effort of loading up the muscles in the arms which would put them out of dynamic balance and have an adverse effect on the swing.
So let the natural unconscious movements of the wrist take care of themselves and focus on keeping the wrists flat in the palmal direction and avoid excessive forearm pronation and supination, i.e. keep the palms perpendicular throughout the swing – secret #2.
Also its a good idea to focus on the feeling of the clubhead in your hands during the entire swing.
Regards, Craig S
P.S. apologies for the lame cricket analogy for the “into the catchers mitt”, I just thought that “into the keeper’s gloves” would only be as “clever as canine crap”!
P.P.S Now that we have Tiger here down under for our Masters we are not giving him back. We are willing to negotiate a trade, perhaps the PGA major – make it a global touring major.
A video of this would be some much clearer, Steve
To Craig63, JohnOB, Surge, Ken, the guy vehemently debating with Ken, to all you all
Whew! And Whoa!
With all due respect to everyone, STOOOOOOP!
That was way too much detail that by definition will absolutely confuse and perplex the masses all day, every day — as evidenced by the replies to this question over the last six months!
All that needs to be said, all that has to be explained, is the agreement that the left wrist must be flat at the top with no caving in nor bowing out of that same left wrist. And a swing motion of the clubhead by the hands will automatically facilitate that condition. That’s it! Period!
Oh, oh, here it comes! And we all need to agree on the next point. We must agree on this basic point for the purpose of retaining the collective sanity of the PPGSers! Yes, the wrists very definitely hinge at the base of the thumbs as so determined by centrifugal force on the clubhead. Yes, yes, and yes! And this “flexion” is fundamental to the action placed on the clubshaft and clubhead. And yes, The surge grudgingly accepts this fact on Page 82 “…a little flexing is okay but no breaking or cocking in the swing;“ Page 83 “…The arm is quite different in that it has two flex or break points in the wrist and the elbow. And like the club in the swing, if we want peak performance, these may “flex a little” but maintain a taut and activated muscle tone.wrist may flex a little;” and Page 84 “…move your wrist up and down. It moves…range is limited.”
I’m sorry, but most golfers call this flexion a cocking action. I don’t care what anyone calls it as long as it is recognized as a vital contributor to the overall pure swing action. And please all you all, remember and retain the “Words from Warren’ so eloquently expressed on this PPGS forum.
I’ve been practicing the PPGS techniques since I purchase the program. Have to admit, I’m hitting a lot more consistently and straighter. However, there’s one part of the swing I just can’t seem to get. It’s the vertical part of the down swing. I’ve got the 3/4 swing, 70 degree, catcher’s mit, verticle lift, finish AFAP, etc, but when I focus on coming straight down from the back swing so gravity will be my friend, I ALWAYS block it right. I think this problem is what is keeping me from getting the extra distance the PPGS promises.
Hi Don,
I have been working on the PPGS technique and when I connect,I am longer and straighter with my irons than ever before. I am having difficulty with the longer sticks. I am having a lot of trouble with fairway woods, ( a lot of fat shots with deep divots) and I am finding that I have a fade with the driver, but for the most part hitting okay. I do not feel I am getting the connection on the driver as I find the average drive is about 10 – 20 yards shorter than before PPGS. I am sure it is something simple. any suggestions on what I should look for?
i would like to see a slow motion video of the back swing , and this s b g showed in detail , i am getting confused as to how far to go back and particular the lift up of the club , i would love to have this in very very slow motion showing it time and time again