Friday, July 30, 2010

One Piece Takeaway

- Audio version at the end of this post –

One piece takeaway or two, asks Phil. His bigger question is how can he make a smooth backswing when he has to change direction in mid-stream in the back swing after lifting the club into the catcher’s mitt. Let’s take a stab at it.

Phil says:
I am a little confused with your takeaway (into the catchers mitt) and then vertical to the top of your backswing. That appears to be a two piece take-a-away (a mid-course change of direction). Please correct me if I am wrong. If not, please tell me or show me how I make a smooth backswing when I have to change my direction mid-stream!

The Surge says:
The PPGS takeaway into the catcher’s mitt is a one piece move. The square of the torso (shoulders to hips) sets the triangle of the shoulder and arms into motion, with the back hip and shoulder pulling in a slight turn and moving in sync. The key is that this in-sync torso and triangle movement starts the club head in motion (in sync) with them, with the sense and feeling that the toe of the club moves first and moves toe up. The club head is moved by the arms and hands lifting it, with the both arms and hands lifting from the shoulder sockets. This is how we lift with no wrist cocking and thus maintain the wrist angle set at address.

The Foundation Swing Manual on page 97 in the section titled “Takeaway & Turn states in a note: “Good wrist action is no wrist action. Do everything you can to maintain the wrist angle you established at setup. A swing thought to remember is the backswing is a little bit of turn and a lot of lift.” Point #2 in describing the takeaway says: “lift the arms from the shoulders like throwing a ball. This lifts the club in a CURVED Arc to the 9 o’clock position.”

The important words in the takeaway description are “a lot of lift” and “in a CURVED Arc.” A secondary good set of words is “like throwing a ball.” When we throw a ball, we lift the arm and hand from the shoulder socket in one smooth motion. The lift is an upward sweeping motion in the shape of a sharply rising arc. The takeaway into the mitt and up the tree is exactly this same upward sweeping arc, all done in a one piece arc, smooth and sweeping upward and all in one direction…up.

I think the concept of the initial lift into the catcher’s mitt and then lifting up the tree can be visualized as a two piece move. Lifting first into the mitt, then lifting more sharply up the tree, can create a sense, image and feeling of the up the tree being more squared off. A sharp squared off lift after the mitt would feel like an angle change of more up and thus the feeling of a two piece takeaway and upswing.

The fact is that from the first movement of lifting the arms, hands and club, they are all lifting in one direction and one direction only, and that is UP. They are lifting up into the mitt and passing right straight through, with no hesitation or stopping. The only thing happening is that the lifting gets a little steeper but stays smooth because the upswing stays in the “shape of an arc.” This is the same feeling as throwing a ball and skipping a rock on a lake. The hand sweeps back a little up as it moves away from the body and then the big sharp up sweep of the hands to the top of the throwing position.

The entire takeaway to the top of the backswing is a one piece move because it is a complete upward sweeping arc in one direction, right through the mitt and up the tree to a ¾ thumbs 12:00 o’clock vertical club.

The Surge!

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  • The purpose of the one piece takeaway is to pre-set the body pivot just behind the middle of the stance. Therefore, the length of the takeaway is not arbitrary like so many advices. It is not the first 18 inches or so like many instructions but precisely the take away should be till the left wrist is about the middle of the stance before the main backswing is started.It should be straight because you want the transfer of weight from the right to the left using the hip joints to be straight, otherwise you will have the effect of wrong ball distancing in the swing proper. The club should also be allowed to raise a little because of the pelvic hip tilt rotation.This is the scientific reason for the takeaway. No takeaway predisposes to reverse pivot. Too much takeaway like sometimes players who want to overpower leads to slicing or pushing because of a hip spin out.Don't even consider Jack Kuykendall's ONE AXIS SWING OR MOE NORMANS BECAUSE THEY ARE ABSOLUTELY WRONG AND MOENORMAS SWING LACKS SUMMATION OF FORCES BETWEEN THE ARMS AND THE LOWER BODY BECAUSE THEY ARE DISTANCED IN THE DOWNSWING.
  • Michael,

    I don't want to get into the problems with the I IRON set but this is nothing new as Tommy Armour did this years ago back in the 80's and it didn't work then. Your quest for fitting clubs is admirable but getting those would not be getting fitted clubs. Look at the link below and use this as a bench mark for what a fitting truly is.

    http://tmgolf.sports.officelive.com/fitting.aspx
  • Charlie
    Re: no cocking of the wrists and centrifugal force


    Thanks for several of you posters, I know feel like I understand the nuances in the behavior of the wrists in the cocking/no cocking debate and what people really mean by "centrifugal force" as related to the swing, two items that have been confusing me for several months.

    I now understand the subtle difference between consciously cocking the wrists and unconsciously allowing them to flex in reaction to the movement of the arms in the swing, making it look like the wrists are being cocked. Such a subtle difference. It is like the person who was said to jump to conclusions, but he says instead that conclusions jump at him.

    To inexperienced golfers who have little idea of how the various muscles feel during different parts of the swing, we cannot know the difference between conscious cocking and unconscious flexing. All we can see is that the angle form by the forearms and the club shaft changes somewhere along the to the top.

    Now to figure out what actually happens to the wrists in the downswing. Obviously, you don’t uncock them since they aren’t cocked. I’m guessing that they just unflex in reaction to the downward swing, just as they flex in the takeback.

    I now realize that by "centrifugal force," writers are referring to the angular velocity (rotational velocity) that is generated by the body and arms in the way similar to the internal parts of a centrifuge that separates blood products, a spin clothes dryer, and a hammer thrower. Now I see that this abbreviation to "centrifugal force" is not the same as the centrifugal force that would hurl a ball into space if it were being spun in an orbit at the end of the string, and the string breaks.

    I am grateful for the extensive postings on the subject of the wrists because it took the many ways that several of you wrote about this action to clarify it for me, starting with NinerMike and J. Griffin, and finally brought to closure for me by Craig63.

    It also emphasizes that pictures are not sufficient, videos are not sufficient, and words are not sufficient. People like me need all of them to make sense of the golf swing.
    Thank you, posters, for helping me understand Don’s swing.

    Charlie
  • Wes
    Don, I am hitting all my irons up to 5 amazing! I have great distance, just as with my old swing, yet more accuracy, which I of course love.
    My 5, 4 and 5wood, rescue/hybrid, driver are suffering.
    I'm not sure if I am swinging too hard on these or what is going on. I understand about the longer shaft, it was not a problem as much as now.
    I don't know of any PPGS system teachers in this area of Southern Calif.
    I have viewed the new swing videos of you and D.J. and they have helped significantly!

    Thanks,

    Wes
  • larry martell
    this is turned into a pissing match and has taken all the fun out of reading any of it. I am here to learn and all I am learning is two people going after each other. If you are here only to discredit some one go away. and stop wasting my time
  • Woody Grace
    to J. Griffin:
    I live out the country and across a county road from a hay field. I going to try your advice tomorrow and let you know how it goes. If you will, send me an email to woodygrace59@yahoo.com w/some kind of contact info and I'll see if I can send you some kind of video of my swing. Thanks and God Bless, Woody
  • Woody,

    First, check ball position. When you are at address, have your left foot perfectly straight. Have the ball located in line with the big toe of the left foot. Then, go ahead and turn your left foot to at least 30* angle. This is to make sure that the ball is up far enough in your stance to give the club head time to square. Next, try choking down on the drive to about a total length of 44". And finally, turn the ball on the tee where the logo is in the lower right hand quandrant of the ball as you are standing above it and looking down at it. As you are swinging, this becomes your visual focal point and nothing but this. You want this to be the spot where the club head is coming in to the ball. This will help to eliminate coming over the top. Also, make sure that you are only taking the club to the point that the shaft is over the toe line then up. Also, it's imperative that the downswing is initiated by the "bump" of the left hip towards the target, not the arms moving first. If they move first it will put you out of position. Also, if your "bump" is a sway, this will have adverse results also. All that being said, it's difficult to offer the best assistance without actually seeing your swing. If you can have someone to video it on a phone or whatever and could send it to me I could help you better. If this is of interest, I'll let you know how to contact me personally. Hope this helps!
  • Jim
    ......So ant inside golf tips for a fellow golfer NinerMike?
  • Here is my point and I hopefully can get it across clearly. My dad told me years ago that the burden of communication lies with the communicator. So, I have grown up making a conscious effort to choose my words carefully and concisely. So, the problem that I have had, especially being that I have a degree in education and that I am currently involved in teaching the golf swing among other things golf related, is that teachers and untrained individuals have a tendency to spout what they have heard or interpreted. My whole beef with the Jones discussion was simply the wording and not the underlying principal involved. Here is the point and I have copied the following from Crais S post above.

    'It is also important to swing the club with the muscles of the body, particularly arms and hands, in dynamic balance and to not consciously introduce any efforts other than those coming from the centre of the swing that promote the pure, centrifugal swinging motion of the clubhead with a sense of feeling and control in the hands.

    I agree wholeheartedly with all but one part and it is a small but key part. There are two types of muscles in the hand, flexors and extendors and just about all of them have their root in the forearm.

    HERE IT IS, MY POINT OF CONTENTION: YOU SWING THE CLUB WITH YOUR ARMS, YOU HOLD THE CLUB WITH YOUR HANDS. THE HANDS FEEL, THEY COMMUNICATE, THEY DIRECT, BUT THEY ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR THE MOVEMENT OF THE CLUB ALONG THE SWING PATH.

    Sorry, but this point is really not argueable. If you introduce movement, conscious, movement of the hands in the swing you are creating angles and this is diametrically opposed to the PPGS system. Oh, there is one other thing I take small issue with from Craig's post and that has to do with the conscious effort to fight movement of the hands in the swing. In the Foundations manual, Don point blank says to make every effort to not move the hands so I see a conflict in the two statements. I think it has to come down to what works for the individual. If the student is an Leadbetter student or follower, they have a very early wrist set and would have to make a concerted effort to fight it.

    I go back to my example that I used early on in another post to try to make my point even more clear. If I tell a student to swing the club by moving his hands then it would be ok if he took the club at address and moved the hands and started the club in some direction before even moving the arms or shoulder. Such is the case in golfers who have a very distinct inside "flip" with their hands and the first move then start turning the shoulders. This are the ones that come way over the top. However, if I take the same student and tell him to move the club by just starting the rotation of the shoulders and to keep a straight line from the shoulder to the club head the hands maintain their position. The point being to communicate the movement that you want.

    I have never stated that the hands are not part of the swing, but they aren't part of the movement of the swing. The one piece take away dictates this.
  • NinerMike Said....

    To Jim

    How perceptive an image you present. I’m impressed! You are right on as far as my displeasure with a certain JG. I feel he has been intellectually dishonest. Dishonest by the way he takes things completely out of context to support ideas not true and condemn the honestly conveyed opinions I present.

    Mike,
    Didn't realize it had become so personal with you. First and foremost as a Christian I would not be dishonest and misrepresent any issue. Second, I have never condemned any opinion of yours. I don't agree with some of them but I'd never condemn an opinion or a man for having one. Since this has gone from the intellectual to the emotional, I offer my apologies for any and all offenses.

    I said this before and it bears saying again. Like Jim said, it seems to be the tomato or tomahto thing where the same thing is basically being said but in a different manner in different words.

    However, I have offered my sincere apology and hopefully it is acceptable. Merry Christmas!
  • Craig63
    A smooth one piece takeaway is very important as it sets the tone for a successful execution of the entire golf swing. For me the club head is swung back into the catcher's mitt (or wicket keeper's gloves) toe up and then up the tree in one smooth easy action. The club head is swung with a centrifugal action, to promote a pure swinging motion, with a sense of feeling of control of the clubhead in the hands and the power of centrifugal exertion coming from the centre of the swing (namely the centre of the shoulders).

    It is also important to swing the club with the muscles of the body, particularly arms and hands, in dynamic balance and to not consciously introduce any efforts other than those coming from the centre of the swing that promote the pure, centrifugal swinging motion of the clubhead with a sense of feeling and control in the hands.

    The wrists remain flat, i.e. the surface of the back of the hand does not change angle with the surface of the top of the forearm, and to consciously break the wrists introduces an external effort, or "leverage",, that interferes with the pure swinging motion. This is a fundamental element to secret #2, palms perpendicular. I like the swings of Retief Goosen, Ernie Els and Steve Stricker as I think they embody the principle of secret #2 and Camillo Villegas states that he focuses on returning his left wrist back to a flat position at impact pointing at the target.

    There is some movement of the wrists in the parallel plane to the flat wrist, or palms perpendicular, during the swing because of different loading conditions at different points in the swing. This is a perfectly normal unconscious action because the wrists are flexible and to make a conscious effort to fight this movement will again interfere with the pure swinging motion.

    I swing in the PPGS style which has been a tremendous boost to my physical well being, it helps me manage my dodgy lower back, as well as my ball striking. I also swing with the Ernest Jones methodolgy of the pure, centrifugal swinging motion with a sense of feeling and control of the club head with the hands. This has allowed me to develop "form" with the PPGS and to continuously improve.

    I must say a thank you to NinerMike, and other like minded bloggers, who intoduced me to the Ernest Jones philosophy. If you were teaching in the Sydney, Australia, area then I would definitely go see you as I would be confident in receiving positive and helpful feedback of my golf swing.

    Regards, Craig S
  • lee holbrook
    Sir, I am69 years old and have a 15-16 handicap. I believe i could drop this by 5-10 strokes if i could just hit my second shots. Also i have lost about 20-30 yards from my driver,and also from my irons. Wrist cock all of a sudden is driving me crazy.PLEASE CAN U HELP?
  • Jim
    NinerMike, I love respectful banter. But, ,I have to say, that that last post I made was a direct cut and paste quote from The D man himself. Myth #2. Maybe this is about tomato / tomahto, etc.
    You use the words "wrist cock" Don says NO wrist cock. In fact he's adamant about it. Maybe your idea of wrist cock is a visual perception or a personal interpretation you have. I don't know! Like you said I (and a lot of others) can be impressionable. Since this is Don's thing, I don't feel we should try to re-word, add to or take away from, his explanations. Like he says kiss.
  • Jim
    This is about reality not interpretation! Her is reality as Don wrote it. This is a copy & paste from Don's free lesson #2 "The Myth of Wrist Cock":

    The point I want make here is this:

    If you cock, break or set your wrists at any point during your back-swing, you are changing what I call “The #1 Domino.” Do you know what happens when the first domino falls?

    They all fall!

    When you cock or set your wrists, you change the angle of your left forearm to the shaft… as well as change all the muscle lengths and tone of your arms and hands.

    So I believe, and teach, “Good wrist action is no wrist action.”

    In the backswing, you want to do everything mentally and physically possible to ensure you never let your left wrist angle change in the backswing. Lifting the club properly, from the takeaway to the top of the backswing, gets the club above the hands at the top without any change in muscle length or tone, and is the key ingredient to having a 3/4 length and vertical backswing.

    There you go.

    I hope you’ve enjoyed this short lesson today.

    Tomorrow we’re going to demolish another dangerous myth — about posture.

    So watch your inbox tomorrow.
  • Jim
    Niner Mike for trying to clear things up you sure rambled out a long-winded post that is completely confusing! I remember reading your stuff from awhile ago and it seemed to be concise & insightful. But, now, after reading your posts today I need to go back and watch all Don's videos again just to find clarity and the simplicity of his philosophy. What happened? You obviously have an axe to grind with another blogger. I won't name names, but, I think the initials are JG.
    Don if your out there,,,can you help!
  • Ninermike:
    You are of course entitled to your opinion. But, I rather see you as one who is more of the crusty codger that is unwilling to change. I left out old in respect of the fact that you are indeed of retirement age. However, you are not the only one with a teaching degree and that was my field also. A preparation of sorts for present day activities. You also can't blame the collective lack of improvement in golfer's handicaps on all teachers. In truth, of the golfing population, the vast majority never take a lesson or go from one instructor to another.

    As for the Jones comments, I'm not even going there again and will not waste anymore of these fine people's time reading a verbal jousting match. Surfice it to say, I totally disagree with your interpretation and as for the drill, I was able to do it long before any conversation with you.

    As for the wrist cocking, Don's definition, etc., I stand by what I've said and that's enough. There is a big difference in a slight flex of the hand and a deliberate cocking of the wrist. So, have a great Christmas but I will not engage in another verbal battle with you.
  • DON,THANKS FOR YOUR SHOW I LOVED IT. DO THINK WE OR YOU COULD COME UP W/ A PARCTICE TOOL FOR 30 DEGREE FEET(WIDE KNEES) THAT WOULD FIT IN INSIDE OF THE FEET AND ADJUSTABLE WIDTH FOR DIFFERENT SIZED GOLFERS AND PUT AND ARROW OR PROJECTION THAT WAS TOWARDS THE BALL AND MOVEABLE FOR DIFFERENT CLUBS,WEDGE TO 5 IRON OR SO. WOULD THIS WORK ON THE RANGE W/ A SUPPORT VIDEO. THANKS MARK
  • Lynn
    Hello Surge,

    What about into the catchers mitt and throw the catchers mitt up the tree with the head of the club all in one continuous motion? Seriously though, when I first tried the swing I had a slight hesitation when reaching the catchers mitt. This kills the swing. It has to be one continuous motion.
  • parchaser
    Wristcock: I am quoting from Harvey Penick----"one way to mess students up is to tell
    them to cock their wrists. When you swingback to waist high- shaft parallel to the ground and
    the toe pointed straight up your wrists will be cocked. Tof get a clear picture in mind of how the
    wrists cock,double your left hand into a fist. This is an automatic wrist cock." Another wise
    pro said to make a fist and hold on as tight as you can with your fingers. Now move the hand
    up and down. You can't keep from cocking your wrists because it is a hinge. Hands up and
    down-OK. Hands moving left and right is a big NO NO!! Any sideways movement is SOLELY
    a result of centrifugal force. Hope this helps eliminate this confusion.
    Parchaser
  • Mack Potter
    This does not seem very simple at all, seems like you would just use your arms and take the big muscles out of the swing, very confusing and not simple to do for me.
  • Bob Taylor (Scotland UK)
    Don't know what you guys are getting all worked up about. I believe that Don has found the answer to every golfers problem. KEEP IT SIMPLE !!!!
    I don't have Don's videos, don't need them. Just reading what he says has helped me considerably. With the 3/4 swing my swing thought is "Up & Down" just that, short and simple.
    Have been using the PPGS (or my interpretation of it) for about six months now. My game has improved beyond recognition, handicap reduced to 10. I'm hoping that the improvement continues and that for the first time in my life (I'm 69yrs old) I can get down to single figures early next year.
    Keep up the good work Don.
    Cheers.
  • Dennis,
    You want to talk with Greg McDonald and I'm pretty sure he's teaching out of Olde South just off Hilton Head Island. In any case, here's his number.

    843-683-5988
  • Dennis
    Surge- They used too teach your swing at eagles point in south carolina and I talked to one of the instructors about the swing and he convinced me too purchase your dvd's and if I had any trouble he would be here for lessons, so now I am trying to find him and eagles point just told me that your swing isn't taught there anymore and don't know nothing or where it is being taught. Could you please give some names of instructorsn in the savannah ga area please. tks Dennis
  • John Capello
    Hello I purchased your system and have no received anything yet. Don't i get the whole system on cds? Let me know whats the hold up, John
  • I'm sorry NINERMIKE, I make a living at this and you can argue symantics all you want. A flex of the wrist is not a cock of the wrist. If your wrists were fully cocked in your back swing by the time your hands got to waist high the club would be pointing straight up in the air. The flexing in or bowing of the wrist as you call it has nothing to do with cocking. That movement is called "cupping" and is not all what is meant by cocking the wrist. The slight flexation as you call it is caused by the weight of club head and movement but again is certainly not a cocking action. A "cocked" wrist is one where the thumb, if held up, would be at 90* to the forearm. I don't mind being corrected when I'm wrong but in this instance, I'm not.

    You also took out of context what Don says in the manual and one statement sums it up quite well and I quote (from bottom of page 83), "It is because if a golfer over bends, breaks, hinges, or especially cocks his wrists anywhere in the backswing, keeping the wrist flat at the top is "ANATOMICALLY IMPOSSIBLE".

    From this one statement we can certainly see that to Don cocking and keeping the wrist flat are two different entities and do not have the same definition. I really can't add anything else to it.


    And do you really think the following was an honest and proper reaction to anything?

    "Don & DJ : do they cock their wrists?

    Look at the videos. Are you going to believe Don, or your lying eyes? LOL!'

    Unless my reading comprehension has decreased considerablly, I'd say it's sarcastic and a subtle way of questioning Don't veracity and an attempt to discredit him as happens to be the case with just about every post that said individual puts up.

    AMEN AND AMEN!
  • John Zalis
    So far so good, I'm just about ready to order my first golf video's but I do need to understand the flat, firm, whatever wrist thing, Your video's of your and DJ swing clearly show a wrist cock at the top of the 3/4 quarter swing. I'm missing some thing? What?
  • Frank
    Hi Guys: I notice you make reference to the lifting of the right arm( Right handed) as though you are going to pitch a ball- the arm rises to the level of the shoulder- however I would imagine you would never want the feeling of throwing the ball from this position as this would be the equivalent of a 'fly cast' would it not? From this position you want to drop the club into the slot, hands close to the right thigh, then pull the hands (stll ahead of the club head at this point) through the ball ( where the club head catchtr5l;es up) and up to the "T" position at the finish?

    Frank
  • Ralph Smith
    Surge is there a PPGS teaching pro in the San Franciso please let me know.


    Thank You Ralph Smith
  • Jim Boylan
    Could you send me the videos of you and DJ's swings. I would appreciate it.

    Thanks!
  • Jim
    Nice comment J. Griffin! You definitely know what your talking about and have a good grip,so to speak, on the PPGS!

    I'd like to mention too that it's nice that most everyone stayed on subject on this blog.
    That makes for a much more enjoyable and constructive discussion!
  • Eric,
    Not sure but I think you have to be a member of the Inner Cirlce for that to show up under my products. If you are a member then I'd contact them at 800-603-2706 (8:00AM to 6:00PM MST, Monday Through Friday)
  • Eric
    For you guys that cannot find the “Foundations Manual” Do this: Login to the site, place your mouse on (do not click) and hold it there. “MY PRODUCTS” is at top of the screen, two choices will then appear the topmost contains the DVDs, the bottom choice is the “Foundations Manual” Drag your mouse to darken “Foundations Manual” and release your mouse. You will then have access to Don’s manual. You can then view it on your PC or Mac or you can download it to your PC or Mac.

    No I CANNOT, I've tried this route several times now but all that's appearing under the "my products" tab is "DVDs" no 'foundations manual' to be seen nor anywhere else.
    I would really like to get some things clarified through the manual, so where is it......

    Eric
  • The wrists do not cock. If you will look at DJ's video since it's in slow motion and stop it at the top of his back swing you'll see that his left wrist is in the same position as at address. What DJ does do is rotate the left forearm quickly as he is beginning the turn and lift. This is not cocking the wrist. Watch the video and look at his left forearm as he starts the back swing. To see what wrist cock is hold your arms out in front of you and put your hands together as if holding a golf club and move your hands in a manner that you are pointing the thumbs straight up. That creates an almost 90* angle and neither DJ or Don have that. The left forearm rotates as the shoulders start the turn and then lift. DJ rotates faster than Don and I would expect that as he his younger and quicker to begin with. Both maintain the one piece take away, keeping the triangle formed by chest and arms constant, as opposed to many higher handicap players that take the club back to the inside and then come over the top. For those who would like to feel the take away without wrist cock as you are probably used to in rotational swings, take your address and as you begin to turn the shoulders simply rotate the left forearm clockwise to the point that the face of the club is in the same line as your arms, i.e. the toe is pointing up. Look at your wrists. The angle should be the same To check this, simply rotate the left forearm counter clockwise as you return the shoulders to the original address position. You should be just like you were before and you didn't have to do a thing with your wrists. So, you can choose to believe the Master PGA Teaching Professional or someone that has a history of going from article to article on this site and trying to incite confrontation. THE WRISTS DON'T COCK!
  • WARREN
    Don & DJ : do they cock their wrists?

    Look at the videos. Are you going to believe Don, or your lying eyes? LOL!
  • Chuck
    That was the most difficult 'visual' key to fix in ones mind. After using Ledbetter's swing thoughts for years it was hard not to 'set' the wrists early and trun away from the ball.

    Then, while reading today's journal it dawned on me to thing about swinging the club away from the ball, not 'turning'. Sometimes just one word can make a big difference.

    Chuck
  • Cyrus
    Your refence to the catcher's mitt is no use to us here in the UK where baseball is practically unknown! Any chance of a diagram to show us what you mean? Where does the mitt start?? And where is the ball coming from? I presume it's not a high ball, as it must begin from a hanging position like the hands on the gold club?? Sorry about all the questions!

    It sounds so good, I'd hate to miss this tip just because of my lack of understanding baseball.

    Cyrus
  • Ken Genz
    May I suggest trying to stand without a turn at all. Swing the club in a circle in front of you and see the speed you can generate. Try generating that speed swinging the club behind you. Not the same. I think this is what Surge is trying to say, with a 70 degree turn added. It is one move in a circle.
  • Peter Mc
    I have a problem of over swinging on the back swing. I start of nicely but by the 3rd hole I am back to where I was with my previous swing. apparently where I think I am swinging to bears no relation to where I actually do. So Push, Pulls but mainly Slices are back on the agenda. Is there any training drills or techniques I can use to fix my on course woes.
    Cheers Peter
  • Jim Wile
    To John Bosco:
    You initiate the backswing with the entire triangle consisting of the shoulders, left and right arm together.

    Neither Don nor D.J. goes "way past vertical" when looking at their swings from the down-the-line view. Vertical means the 12:00 o'clock position, which both of them achieve. You must be thinking of it when looking at the face-on view where you are indeed correct that they go beyond vertical. It is the down-the-line version of vertical, i.e. the 12:00 o'clock position, that the PPGS advocates.
  • Jim D.
    FOR JOEL WHO "IS LOSING EVERTHING RIGHT OF THE TARGET"

    The other day a golfer who I had never played with was going to fill in as a part of our usual foursome. We were going to the range to warm up. He told me he had heard that I was a good golfer and that perhaps I could help him with a problem he was having and I said I would if I could. He said that his problem was always hitting the ball a little left of his target.

    On the practice tee I asked him to hit some 8 irons using the 150 yard flag as his target. He had a very nice swing with good tempo. His feet, hips and shoulders were all square to the target but he , indeed, was hitting a little left of target.

    So I stood facing him and watched him hit and saw the problem immediately. He was turning the toe of his club a little in when setting up and sure enough hit the ball where the club was aiming; namely, left. I told him this and to look down at the grooves to make certain that he was, in fact, aiming the club face to his intended target. So, he squared the clubface and thereafter hit the ball perfectly straight. We then played 18 holes and he did not hit one shot left.

    As Don as said repeatedly: "Alignment, Alignment, Allgnment!!!"

    Good golfing!
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