Now Where Does That Ball Go?

Written by dontrahan on March 10, 2010 — View Comments

For our friends and members in different hemispheres and warmer climates, please forgive my provincial (my egghead partner supplied the word) outlook on the weather. Yesterday, when we started our trip to Port St. Lucie, Florida, for another PPGS golf school, the weatherman said it would get to 70 degrees F (that’s about 21 C, I’m not that provincial) in the foothills of the Blue Ridge Mountains in South Carolina, where I live.

While highly unusual, we haven’t seen 70F in months! So I wasn’t too surprised that the number of golfers visiting our site jumped pretty quickly. So did the number of questions about territory I’ve covered before. But then I saw that some of you, who have been with us for some time, had similar questions. One common one was ball position. So I thought I should revisit “where that ball goes” in your PPGS setup.

Ball position at address can be confusing. Often you’re taught that the position should be different for every club, which could add up to 14 different positions! When you follow The Surge’s suggestions about “hitting up” on the ball, there are really only four ball positions you have to this about. As you know, I like to keep it simple.

But no matter which club you’re using, there are certain constants. Always keep your nose on the ball. Always. And keep those knees wide.

Wedges to 7 iron.

The ball position for all those clubs is directly in the middle of your stance. Keep those knees wide (“like riding a skinny horse”) and your nose on the ball. Swing up!

Long irons to fairway woods.

Move the ball a little more forward, about an inch or two behind the left heel. The general rule is that the less loft on the club, the ball should be the further up in your stance.

Rescue Woods.

These popular clubs work best when the ball position is just behind the left heel. Keep those knees wide, your nose on the ball, and “swing up!”

Driver.

Because it is the least lofted club with the longest shaft, the ball should be at the left heel to slightly forward to the back of the instep.

Everyone is going to be slightly different. But if you position your ball within the parameters of these four positions, you’ll lower your score!

The Surge!

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Posted in Golf Instruction

Beckenbaugh Robert

I am totally confused by the March 10 2010 descrot[topm pm ball position and set up refereed to in your daily email today(7/27/10) You are showing pictures of set up with an incredible forward press on all ball positions. I understodd the ppgs had No forward press??????????
Steve Smith

Hands are supposed to be ahead of the ball with ALL clubs including driver.
Gentry62

with the ball postion with the driver you state the ball should be placed just slightly forward to the back instep. Useing my ankle as a refference point would i place the ball in front , the middle or back of my ankle?
David Springer

Don, I received your article 4 not 14 and did it pay off today. I was hitting the ball longer and straighter than I've been hitting it. Also moved the ball a little forward in my stance when putting.
I was able to roll the ball on a much straighter line. I can say I had a one of the most enjoyable rounds of golf this year. Your system really works if you give it a chance and be patient. It seems to be coming together. I hope you read this.
David
Roger Gordon

This is a simple question. How do you keep the weight on the insides of your feet during the swing, a la Hogan, while keeping your knees wide as you advocate and show in the picture? I find that doing one of these prevents the other from happening!
RALPH DEANGELIS

SURGE I HAVE STUNK IT UP FOR THE PAST 2 YEARS AFTER BEING A SOLID 11/12 HDCP FOR THE PAST 25YRS; I AM DEDICATED TO YOUR SWING AND I JUST CAME BACK FROM FLA. AND ONLY HAD ABOUT 25% SUCESS WITH PPGS. LOOKED AT THE PICTURES ON BALL POSITION AND FOUND THAT WAS THE PROBLEM IT IS LIKE YOU SAID... THE SET UP DETERMINES THE MOTION I WILL NOT GIVE UP ON PPGS I WILL GET BETTER THANKS.
Dr. Greg Palkowski

Surge, One thing we may need to take into account with ball position is that those of us that are right handed golfers, yet with a left eye dominant, will need to move the ball slightly more forward in their stance to accomadate for their visual perception change. This results in a different sighting on the position of the ball and the intended target line. If its postioned for a right eye dominant, the club face will remain slightly open at impact, resulting in a push/slice. I've found especially with long irons, woods, and the Driver, my ball position has to be further forward by at least two inches.
Rob Hatton

Hi surge,

Just started viewing the 10 free videos and the posts for this online articles, about to start viewing the PPGS. Will try a few things before making any hasty comments, as a general observation though I can see there are quite a few aspects of the game that you've covered which can help me improve - once I put in the required work ;-)

Regarding the photos for ball position, as other readers have already commented - great ! One thing you might be able to clarify is whether the club face is square with the ball, eg in the W-7 picture the club face appears to be slightly open ? This could just be an optical illusion caused by camera angles, but is one area I have had some difficulty with from time-to-time.

Keep up the great work.

Cheers,

Rob (Sydney, Australia)
FALshooter

Surge,
I've been following your PPGS system for the last 6 months. This week I was re-reading the Foundations Manual (PPGS-FM), and I noticed that this post on Ball Position is a more simplified version of what is written on Pg 40 of the PPGS-FM. I printed your post as a pdf and stored it on my computer with the PPGS-FM. Is there going to be an update to the PPGS-FM to incorporate this and other revisions?

I like the swing, and am working on getting it down. I haven't had a "break-through" yet. I shot some video last week, and found that I've still got some bad habits that need to get cleaned up. Re-reading the PPGS-FM showed me some areas that I need to fix. I saw that my take-away is too handsy, grip too far into right palm (RH player), getting a little strong on the right side [B.A.D], and still getting into the SBG.

Thanks!
susan turner

On a right hand swing, do the hips go to the left or the right first.
Mark R

Thanks for the tip. I'm always getting tips from people, and its different with every person. The pics help a great deal!
Ben Benson

I have not read all the responses so everyone should note the feet are just shoulder width for all the clubs - personal preference or stature may dictate slight change.
Jim Yorg

Surge,
A few months ago you sent videos of you and DJ swinging each club in your bags. It was terrific, but, alas, my hard drive crashed. Please send them again.
Thanks for all you do for the good of the game.
Semper Fi, JY
Jim Stiegelmeyer

Surge'

I need help with correcting a outside in swing path, and cupping the right wrist at impact. What do I need to do to avoid each of these flaws?
Bruce

Are hybrids considered long irons or rescue woods?
Thanks.
Tony Borovsky

Don,

I started playing golf last spring for the second time. I left the sport about 18 years ago because of great frustration of the sport. Two years ago I tore my right rotator cuff, which resulted in surgery and an end to my hockey career... Last spring my 14 yr old son developed a love for the sport and I decided to take it up again. This past summer I decided to do it right and began taking lessons from a CPGA professional. My problem since I began again, is that I have a very limited range in my back swing (right handed swing) as a result of the surgery, and am wondering if you have any suggestions that might help. I have been to physio for almost two years and they say nothing more can be done to improve my motion. Am I done with the sport or should I just put up with my 180 yd drives. My short game remains consistent, but the driver and fairway wood department needs help.

Tony from Hubley
Paul

Don,

This is great to see it on pictures, but I can't see how high is the tee with woods and driver.
Can you show this next time.
D. Battles

While I appreciate getting advice, it would be nice to know by whom we are getting advice. Are trained instructors, authorized by Don T., imparting advice via messages on this comment section? Or are all the comments in this section from PPGS enthusiasts only? For instance, are Ron Reed and Robert Shepherd trained instructors or simply students, like the rest of us? I will still try the suggestions, but I would place a different value on the advice if I knew it was coming pretty straight from the (skinny) horse's mouth.
Larry Fleck

My club head speed with my driver is 83 mph. My age is 70. Handicap is 13. How long should I be able to drive the ball using PPGS approach. I have been hitting it about 200-210 yards and it seems like I should be able to hit it further.

I just started using your teaching and haven't got it down yet obviously but when I swing as you teach I am finally hitting the ball straight. I have been fighting a slice for a Loooong time.

Thx - Larry
Clark Kent

Surge,

Thanks to you and your staff for providing an asset for the PPGS. I know it takes time and money to create what people need to see. I would also like to see the changes of the club face when a wrist is flat or cupped at impact with any particular swing (i.e. inside-to-out swing, outside-to-in swing, or trying to hit a straight shot. Thanks again for all of your input it works!!!!
Clark K
Chuck

Hey Surge! I cannot wait to apply your suggestions. However, since a hip replacement operation - I am right-handed and right hip replaced - several years ago, my swing has slowed and I am a stiffer going through the ball. How can I regain the power in my swing to hit the long drives? Is there an exercice that may help; or possibly a little different setup I can use to get more power to the ball on contact? (I am 65 yrs young.) Your help is appreciated.
Dan

Surge,
The setup and ball position today complete with pictures was great! I went to your club fitter in Columbia, Lynn, last week and during the drill to analyze my swing, etc., found out my driver was hitting the ball on the downswing instead of upswing - major breakthrough!!!! Lynn suggested I position the ball farther up in my stance. Saturday I repositioned the driver and hit the ball much better. Last night I received my new "Surge Driver" and cannot wait to check out the trajectory and length. I will let you know once it quits raining here in Atlanta!
Dan
Jim Rous

Surge,
This is really appreciated. The 4 Ball Positions are simple and clear. I am a subscriber to the
K.I.S.S. theory in life and I have been fooling around for correct ball positions this month, and found this timely.
Your blog is a great place to visit and I do so daily!
Jim.
Joe West

Hey Surge,

Like Leland Reavis I too am a little foggy on the whole "knees wide" theory. I was hoping that you could elaborate on this subject in one of your blogs. I've been under the assumption that the "knees wide" position was almost a bowlegged position where the outside of the knee was a little wider or just outside the outside edge of the foot. Then your "like riding a skinny horse" analogy threw me off. When you ride a skinny horse your knees are closer together not wide. Wide knees or bow legs come from riding a fat horse. The only thing I've been able to get out of the "knees wide" thing is knee pain, especially in the right knee. Could you please clarify what exactly you mean by wide knees and how it works with weight shift and getting through the shot.

Thanks,

Joe
Bugsy Malone

Some good advice here except the part about "swinging up". The correct path when hitting with a fairwood wood or rescue club would be "hit down". Trying to lift the ball will only cause thin shots, that are weak and generally go to the cut side of the target. Use the loft of the club, "hit down to go up".
Tom Fenech

Loved the use of the pictures this time!!!!
What that saying,"one picture equal a thousahd words."
cal mason

My ball position is good, but I keep taking deep divots. My big problem is trying to sweep the ball with a shallow divot. What can I do to change this???
Frank Sullivan

Hi Don.
Love the pics I have been working out at the dome in Barrie Ontario and I can hardly wait to get on the range as hitting the driver in a dome doesn,t do much for me but I am really pleased with the Irons.
I am hoping to get back to single digits some time in late july. Thanks again Frank
gavin graham

been following your instructions since i first picked up a golf club last year aged 43 have bcut my h/cap from 27 down to 14 with your help some great advice nice to see instructional pics aswell keep them coming
Michelle

Helpful pictures...thanks!
Morti

Paul Wintuska wrote;

I am a 5′ 4″ LEFTY and I have a bad problem with a slice! I bought a driver with a draw , it seem to help a lot but I STILL slice. can you HELP me any at all without seeing my swing?????

Paul:

I am also a lefty with an awesome slice that has been frustrating the HE double hockey sticks out of me.
I read an article the other day along the same lines and the instructor suggested to try the ten finger grip as opposed to the interlock or overlay grip. His theory is that with the ten finger grip the upper hand now has all five fingers on the club and will impart more draw into the swing. Of couirse here in Ontario Canada the ranges are under snow so I went to a covered dome in the area and found this grip to be, it appeared, helpfull. Now, I really won't know until I get to the REAL range will I?

Surge, do you have any comments on this theory?

Thank you in acvance and thanks for listening
Mort
Robert Bib Jr

Great Stuff!! with the photographs .I like many like visual photographs that back up and support your written comments and instructions. Look forward to many more.

THANKS!! Bob
Lars-Goran Toivonen

Hi

Nice that you have started to "produce" pictures, before that it was hard to understand what you ment. One thing I should want you to explain with pictures is teeing. How high and where in the
stance shall you tee up with the driver, woods (3,5,7) and diffrent irons,

Hope you could do this and I am sure that many should love it, pretty unclear still for me.

My handicap is 28 and it should be nice to stop the guess work.

Best Regards
Lars
Pascual Babes Pastor

Don

On the pictures showing the ball positions I noticed two things which I presume are part of your technique which are different to my present set up. 1) In all the pictures the club shaft and your left arms falls in a vertical plane. 2) The arrows pointing the nose to the ball are not perpendicular to the ground. except for W-7 iron. As the ball goes forward the arrow begin to tilt to the left. I will make these changes in my set up this coming Saturday game which I hope will further improve my ball striking and consistency. Thanks for all your teachings which has given hope to most of us lover of the game.
Pascual
Robert Thompson

To Nick and D. Battles,

I will base my comment on the assumption that you are right handed.

If all you are doing is rotating you shoulders and waving the clubhead at the ball, then the clubhead speed will be limited by how fast you can swing your arms. This is especially true with the driver.

When using the PPGS, it is important to start the forward swing properly. When your backswing is almost at the top, this is when you make the bump. When this occurs, the right shoulcer will tilt downward, and the arms will begin to fall.. As this happens, instead of immediately rotating your shoulders to begin your forward upswing, push downward with the right hand. The right arm will straighten very quickly, and will rapidly rotate over the top of the left arm as your body rotates toward impact. This is where the majority of your clubhead speed is generated. it is also called "RELEASE." Clubhead speed is increased dramatically, as is the distance the ball travels.

If you practice this, especially with the assistance of an instructor, your results with every club will improve dramatically. Your instructor doesn't necessarily have to be qualified in the theory of PPGS. He will understand the concept of right arm extension in the forward swing, as it is common to almost every swing technique on the planet.

Hit'em Long and Straight,
Bob
Roy Reed

For Keith and Peter, re; slice: Check to make sure the club face is correctly alinged (or square)to the target. Insure that the club face is not "open" as that will automaticlly cause a fade or slice. Then look at your set-up and alignment, as a slice is usually caused by an outside-to-inside swing path. Make some swings in slow-motion and have someone watch you to see if you are able to detect some minor flaw in your backswing. Also make sure the ball is not too far away from you (ie-you are over-reaching for the ball).

For Pedro, re; high ball flight: You can try lowering the ball on the tee and see if that helps. Also try moving the ball back in your stance; the farther back, the lower the club-face loft when it contacts the ball.

For Leland Reavis, re; stance: The PPGS stance is a simple one, "ride a skinny horse". At set-up, your feet should be at shoulder-width apart (narrow stance) and flared at 30*. Your knees should be directly over your ankles (in a straight line), with some outward pressure on the knees (wide knees) and feet flat on the ground, and equally balanced over your arches (but no pressure on the outside of either foot). This is the essence of the PPGS "skinny-horse" stance.
Roy Reed

Ron Irish: To determine correct distance from the ball, place the club face so the "sweet-spot" is centered directly behind the ball and the sole/bottom of the club is level or parallel to the ground. Use the lower lines on the club face to help you determine when the club sole is"flat". Then assume your stance, set-up and alignment. The griip-end of the club should be approximately one handwidth from your body. The ball position will move farther away from your body as the clubs get longer, but this set-up process will keep you in the "upright" position needed for the PPGS. Slight adjustments can be made, and you want to find the position that allows you to swing straight thru the ball without reaching out and losing balance. Hit em straight! R2
Tom Stopski

Don.....started practicing the PPGs swing method with only my sand wedge.. Got to play a round today using the swing on the other clubs for the first time. To my pleasant surprise I hit the driver straight or with a very slight draw...on the 15th hole I surprised myself by hitting the ball 50 yds farther than ever before. I must say that the narrower stance with the "wide knees" takes some getting used to and regarding the "bump", I find that with the PPGs stance...the weighh shift is almost negligible as the weight is right there on the left leg as soon as one makes the first move with the hips. When I hit the longest drive there was an unusual sensation with the hands as they went through impact...don't know quite how to describe it ...I think it felt as though my wrists turned over very quickly....a feeling that the club face rotation was a large part in generating the noticable greater distance For one who had a rather flat swing plane, the "up the tree" and especially the "no wrist cock" takes a lot of concentration, but, I'm sold on the results, so will continue with your advice.I'm 81 and shot 76 today on our par 69 course. Thanks for the great information you are providing which helps us enjoy the game mor by playing better golf. Tom
Tony Rung

Don
I'm assuming a rescue club is a hybrid and they generally have more loft than fairway woods do they not?I don't mean to nitpick, I'm just a little confused that's all.
Thank you and keep up the good work.
Paul Wintuska

Surge: Thank yo sooooo much for the picture's ! Like they say A picture is worth a thousand words. That was one of my biggest concern's .where do place the ball for all the different clubs.

THANK'S again for the PICTURES!!!

I am a 5' 4" LEFTY and I have a bad problem with a slice! I bought a driver with a draw , it seem to help a lot but I STILL slice. can you HELP me any at all without seeing my swing?????

Thank You!!!! Paul

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