Friday, July 30, 2010

Initiating the Downswing

- Audio version at the end of this post –

B. Weiner wrote in a question recently, “I am realizing some of the benefits of your method; however, I still have trouble initiating the downswing and keeping myself (1) from coming over the top (pulling my left shoulder around slightly and getting my hands outside the target line. (2) It seems to me that even from the 12 o’clock position, one has to make the move that the pros do so well, and that is difficult for most amateurs like myself, which is to drop the club to the inside(‘in the slot’).  Your recommendation of starting downswing by moving the left hip towards the target or down the target line doesn’t do it for me.  (3) Is one supposed to drop the club straight down at the ball from the 12 o’clock position?  (4) And is that the same as dropping it slightly to the inside (does the club head as it descends from 12 o’clock actually go to 11 or 10 o’clock)?”

Mr. Weiner you have asked or made comments that equate to 4 questions or points (I numbered them) and I will answer them in order.  What I don’t get to today I will answer shortly.  So let’s get started with the first one.

When you say you still have trouble initiating the downswing and keeping yourself from coming over the top (pulling my left shoulder around slightly and getting my hands outside the target line, I can only deduce that you are turning your shoulders too much in the backswing.  You are turning your left arm past the toe line and getting into the “Sacred Burial Ground” (SBG.)  This means you are getting your arms and club behind your torso.  The only way back to the ball on a straight line to the ball on the target line, to hit it straight at the target, is you first have to get the club from behind you to in front of you.  Thus the pulling of the left shoulder around slightly and getting your hands outside the target line and there you have the outside to in swing path.

Let me answer this by referring to the Foundations Swing Manual, which has the definitions and descriptions and a whole lot more about the inner workings and fine points of the PPGS, which helps one understand the what, why and HOW to make the PPGS.  I start on page 86 the title of the section is Secret #3.  You turn only to the toe line in the backswing and the forward upswing.

Key:  You must stay out of the “SBG,” that area in a square or semi-circle behind your toe line.
What this means for the swing is that when you swing into the SBG your arms and club are getting behind your shoulders and body and moving quite far from the aiming line.  Since the club has to be returned to the aiming line in an on-on-and-on path to hit a straight shot, you have to get the club back around in front of your body to approach the ball on path.  Since you cannot swing through your body, the only path to the ball on the aiming line is to pull the club up and around it, thus achieving the outside to in swing path and the sliced ball flight.

Hopefully you now see the problem when you’re told to swing the club outside to in, the “correction” to swing the club more to the inside (into the SBG) in the backswing.  You are adding to the problem that causes the outside – in swing path and slice.  The real answer is to take the club straight back into the catcher’s mitt and up the tree in the backswing, and then the same thing in the forward swing, as we must adhere to the law of, “for every action, there is an equal and opposite re-action.”

So, let’s re-cap and paraphrase Secret #3 with two appropriate Surgisms.  “Golf is like life.  What goes around comes around…and what goes straight back and up, comes straight down and up.”  And for the closing clincher, “You can stand in the Sacred Burial Ground, but if you swing in it…YOU’RE DEAD!”

So, I think this also somewhat answers your second question of why you can’t do the movement of the left hip (bump) toward the target in the downswing properly, which I will discuss in the next article.

The Surge!

- Use these controls for the audio version of this post –

Get Flash to see this player.

Post to Twitter Tweet This Post

.

Please Leave Me Your Comments & Questions!

Tell me what you're thinking... and what part of the golf swing, or this great game... you'd like to know more about. If you want your pic to show with your comment, go get a gravatar!

IMPORTANT: the purpose of this comment section is to foster constructive conversation about improving our blog reader's golf game. This area is NOT designed to answer customer support questions. If you have questions about a purchase or gaining access to our private members area, please contact our customer support team at 800-603-2706 (8:00AM to 6:00PM MST, Monday Through Friday) or click here for email support. We have a new team handling support and they are very good! Please also read the FAQs below as your first course of action.

"The Surge"

Top "Frequently Asked Questions":

Question: I haven't received the product(s) I ordered.

Answer: If you ordered the PPGS Foundations Video Series, or any combination of lesson videos, it's important to understand that these are delivered in a "digital format" in our secure members only area, click here to login and access this valuble content immediately. If you have never logged in before, simply click on the "First Time User?" link at the bottom of the login page and follow the instructions.

The main advantages to this delivery method are; (a) you have access to the content immediately after ordering, (b) you have several different formats that you can view the videos in (including downloadable formats you can burn to DVD and/or put right on your iPhone, or other smart phone, to take them to the practice range and (c) you will get new versions of any products that we revise and/or improve for free without having to wait for updates to be delivered to you through the postal mail.

IMPORTANT: if you want actual hard copy DVDs sent to your home, you can call our customer support team at 800-603-2706 (8:00AM to 6:00PM MDT, Monday Through Friday) and they can get those shipped right out to you for the price of shipping and handling.


Question: I received 1 or more of the 10 free videos, but I'm missing 1 or more. How do I get the free videos that I'm missing?

Answer: You can simply follow this link, put in the email address that you originally signed up with... and you'll be able to view them immediately: http://members.peakperformancegolfswing.com/LostFreeVideos.aspx


Question: I emailed customer service and I never got a response back. How do I get support?

Answer: Unfortantely, email is not a perfect system. If our support team has received your email, they have responded to it... their reply just might not have made it all the way to your email "inbox". If you still need assistance on ANYTHING, please call our customer support team at 800-603-2706 (8:00AM to 6:00PM MDT, Monday Through Friday) and they will take care of you.


  • Warren
    Surge; I have somehow come up with a "swing thought" that really helps in initiating the downswing. What I do, and get the feel of, is to start rotating the lower body into the "bump" slightly before the club reaches the peak of the backswing. You can start practicing this by exaggerating the move, and then, once it feels natural, start the turn just a fraction (last 3 inches or so) before the club reaches the top. It then heads down naturally.

    Works for me, might for others as well.
  • Tom
    Good evening. Surge.
    I am sitting in a hotel in Dallas, watching the videos that I downloaded last week. Great info and I have actually begun to see improvement in my approach to the game. I am still working with the vertical club/shaft position on the back swing. My goal is have this swing mastered by January 1st. I played to a low average of 83 and felt comfortable until mid summer when I found myself playing to a 95 scoring level. I am hoping that I can pull out of this ever increasing score and get my game back

    Thanks for the videos, I will keep you up dated to pregress.
  • Ted Harris
    Surge,

    I have been a flat swinger since picking up the game in the late 60's which means I have spent a lot of time in the SBG. My golfing goal has always been to have a repeatable and pain free golf swing and your teachings have always focused on those 2 elements. When I first purchased one of your golf instruction systems (several years ago) you had some training aids that came along with it, bows and arrows. The arrows were for alignment purposes and the bow kept your arms swinging in front of the body (out of the SBG). I am dusting off my bow and going to take it to the driving range so I can get on-on-and on with my swing. From reading your blogs it sounds like a lot of the students may be spending time in the SBG and not know it, maybe you could put a link on your website and make the bow and arrow training aids available to your students. I also want to wish DJ the best of luck on the fall tour he has been playing well.

    Take Care,
    Ted Harris
  • August
    John Flatman,

    I don't think you are totally comprehending what Don is teaching. You DO NOT take the club back behind your toes. He is adamant about that in video and the manual. It is not an orthodox swing, so you have to get that out of your head. It is a much simpler swing. Keep your arms in front of your body. Bring the clubhead into the catchers mitt, then up the tree. That tree is even with your toe line. It is a 3/4 backswing, but you can go longer if you like. Just starting out, make sure the club gets to 3/4 which is a vertical club. If the club is behind your head, you are WAY too far into the SBG. If your hands are behind your behind your left shoulder (which will be right on your toeline at the top of the backswing) you are getting into the SBG. To experience this "more lift, less around" swing, stand with your toes in line with an open doorway. The vertical part of the doorway will act as the "tree". Don't swing fast or anything, just take the club slowly back to the catcher's mitt, which is in line with the ball and target, then when your shaft connects with the doorway, just go up until the club is vertical. It won't be this rigid in real-life or anything, but it'll give you a feel of how it is IMPOSSIBLE to take the club behind your head or even into the SBG. I hope that helps
  • Rick
    Don,

    I just wanted to tell you how much you helped me with my driving. I am a scratch player but I was hitting my driver all over the place left and right. Your explanation about standing in but not swinging in the Sacred Burial Ground (SBG) was just what I needed. It was like a litebulb came on. Now I can swing my driver with confidence and know I can find the fairway. I don't have all the Peak Performance Swing down yet but I continue to work on it.

    Rick
  • dean
    don a big problem i have is that i am straight and short - 2 hdcp. but i have not c/h speed through
    impact so that is why i am straight- how does one release the c/h and get speed through the impact zone. i have tried all your suggestions-but the speed issue and release pattern still exist

    dean
  • ian mayger
    Dear Don,
    Your comment that getting into the SBG on the back swing will cause pull shots identified my problem. I found that if I had my weight on the heels this happened, putting the weight on the balls of the feet seems to have corrected this problem. Thanks, I had been strugling to find the cause of this particular problem for ages.
  • medlatif
    Hi Don,
    I shot 79 after 3 days I used PPGS. my handicap is 15. Thank you Don.
  • Craig63
    The "butt on the wall" drill has helped me tremendously in developing the vertical plane lift on the backswing, after the flat rotation of the arms to the toe line, to keep my club "light" and to stay out of the SBG.

    What I need now is to be able to do the same thing repeatedly on the forward upswing. I battle with some old bad habits where I get out of sync, come over the top, and either pull the ball left or slap the ball with a weak slice. I am working on the bump/ skip the rock routine to initiate the forward upswing from lower in my body (while also focussing on maintaining an iron girder flat right wrist). I'm looking forward to the future segments of this topic to help me continuously improve in this area (when I get it right, oh man, I smash it long, straight and easier than my old swing).

    Regards, Craig S
  • Ronnie McCurry
    Burt, I think he is talking about Birkdale Golf Course in Huntersville, NC just north of Charlotte where I live.
  • Colin Maclean
    Hi Don,

    I have a little bit of a disappointment to pass on to you.

    I have your program (got it near the end of Septmeber) and what I think is missing (and maybe I just did not get all the videos) but I have not seen a video that breaks down the swing the way you do in Chapter 11 of your manual.

    I found DJ on You Tube and saw his Drive - but other then that I have not seen your swing broken down and shown at regular speed and slow motion with your voice over comments.

    Please show me where this video is or produce the "peak performance swing" detailing the drive, fairway wood (hi-bred) and then a mid iron. It would be great to view all your tips in action and from my perspective without this final piece, I feel the program is lacking.

    I am taking my game very seriously and want to take it to the next level and this is why I got your program to begin with - it fits what I have been doing for a long time and I understand and believe your bio-mechanic explanations.

    Yours in Golf,

    Colin Maclean
  • Jack Stephenson
    Hi Don, interesting comments. Wish I could get the manual, I tried after you lowewred the price to 19.95. I gave you my credit card and I received my recpt showing it had been paid but I couldnt get the manual. I was told that I had to cut and paste, whatever that means, so I still dont have a copy. I offerred to pay for the cost of copying and mailing to me but was told I would have to pay 49.95 for a copy. I delayed in buying the manual because of the cost but when you lowered the price to 19.95 I decided to buy it.. I have tons of golf books and never found one that worked and was reluctant to spend 45.95 for another book knowing it most likely wouldnt help. I guess I will never know as I wont spend that much to find out if it will in fact work. So, Wish you luck, Jack
  • Arturo Perez
    Don,
    I received your last video e-mail 9-29-09 and it has helped me tremendously.
    I was normally a 94 to 99 shooter, but with your help I broke 90 by shooting an 87 on 10-24-09!
    Trust me I had the card signed to prove it.

    Oh by the way thanks for the birdie to finish the round.
  • david frugtniet
    Don,
    I enjoyed today's post (as usual), even though for your regular readers it can become "more of the same". Sorry.
    For me, though, with "the" hips, your transition initiation with the hip "bump" could be dangerous!
    They can't be trusted to stop there! Better for me with the LHS KNEE, ongoing!
    The less hip action ANYWHERE in the entire swing, the better for me!
    As I said in a previous letter, you have us with knees out, why not use one of them?
    I am now onto your second assistance: Strictly into catcher's mitt TOE-UP (VERTICAL PLANE), to help reduce "active" release past these now-more controlled hips!
    Any more tips for release control?
  • Louie Kish
    I developed a pain in the rear-middle of my trailing elbow when I make contact with the ball. It is not golfers or tennis elbow or triceps tendon-itus. Nothing on the MRI or x-ray. As soon as contact is made, the pain is very sharp - located in the joint where the upper and lower bones get close - when the arm is fully extended. The bones ends in this area are separated only by cartilage. . The doc seems to think that I am hyper-extending my arm / elbow as I approach or hit through the ball, so he believes that it is a swing fault. I can hit pain free on many shots, but I haven't a clue why. I've never been one to take divots, so it is not related to that: in fact I can take pratice swings with no ball and deep divots and never feel any pain. Any thoughts?
  • Peter
    Just to say that I have not yet received the Book...so I cannot take it with me to the Range. Your method seemed to work at first, but less so after a couple of weeks...this always happens when I try something new!!!! However, I am persevering.
  • John Flatman
    I am confused about the SBG. If it is a line from the front of your toes like a pane of glass you cannot help but swing behind it. With the club at the top of the swing it is behind your head and your head is behind your toe line so how can you not swing in the SBG. Hogan showed a swing plane as a pane of glass around your head that extended from the ball to the back of your head. His idea was to keep your club on that plane. Even if your plane is at 12 oclock to the ball it is still behind your toes. Do you have a vidio of this swing plane? I also ordered the DVD's you advertize but have not recieved them and it has been a couple months. The four DVD/s were sepeately ordered from the manual which I downloaded.
  • Jim Morrow
    I have gone through two weeks of what the gentlemen described of coming over the top. I found it extremely difficult to hit the ball with direction or power. I had the club vertical and not in the SBG. The harder I tried the worse it got. Finally I asked one of my partners who is familiar with my swing to take a look. He immediately told me my feet were square, my knees were a little open, and my shoulders were open. I either hit weak slices or pulled the ball left without power. I squared my knees and shoulders, even though it felt closed. Squaring up dropped my right arm lower than the left and made it very easy to take the club back to vertical and parallel to the toe line. Power and direction came back immediately. I had just returned from a conference in Arizona where I got several hours of practice. After all the practice, I must admit that I was about to abandon your methodology because golf became work. After discovering it was my missapplication of your swing methodology, I am ready to charge ahead. I am a scratch golfer and have hit some terrific shots so I know your method works...just have to apply it properly. I will be playing in several senior amateur tournaments in Georgia next year and I want this to my tools for success. And the best is that I can practice a lot and my back will not be sore. Thanks for your concepts..Jim Morrow
  • Seth Larmer
    B. Weiner, I'd like to add an observation to what Don mentioned about "for every action, there is an equal and opposite re-action." If by chance you have a flat backswing (i.e. your club is below your shoulders {that is if you don't adhear to the PPGS}), the "opposite" reaction will possibly be a push up and out for the downswing and in essence coming over the top.

    An observation for BobM. When you execute the bump to initiate the downswing, your upper body may be "riding" along with your hips which could cause your shoulders and hands to move forward and to the left as well causing the over the top swing. You can practice without a club by executing your backswing, momentarily hold that position (sometimes called a pregnant pause), bump and turn your hips ONLY to initiate your downswing and hold your shoulders back momentarily and then complete your downswing keeping your spine angle in tact. Years ago, Bob Murphy had a pregnant pause at the top of his backswing. Today, Vijay Singh does this as well.

    To Paul Henry, I think you need to incorporate some lower body in your swing. Minimizing your lower body reduces a lot of strength in your swing and will minimize distance. Recommend incorporating what I mentioned above for BobM.
  • Tony Rung
    Hey Don, I took up the PPGS system halfway through this summer and I hit straighter but I wouldn't say further. My iron shots are about the same but at the start of the year at least once per round my drive would go about 310 yards and straight but most would end up in the trees. Now using the PPGS my furthest shots are around 280 yards. I do appreciate the new swing for the playability as I now have less slice, but I was just wondering if I will be able to get back to 300 yards plus using the PPGS System.
  • Dave
    I don't know Surge. I agree 100% with everything you say here and I know it works. I am able to do it and I'm hitting the ball very well and consistently BUT I do think that even if the student in this example were to get the club into the proper position and not in the SBG zone it can take some time to learn not to hit AT the ball from the top and trust that the club will do the work if you get it in the right position and let gravity do its work. My suggestion is to use mirrors from behind to ensure that you're not in the SBG zone and in front to verify that the shoulder turn isn't going beyond 3/4 and when that is solidly felt and understood to start working on the bump and letting gravity help the club swing down and through vs. swinging at the ball.
  • Burt Harris
    In a previous post you mentioned you teach in Hendersonville, NC. I live there but never heard of Birkdale Golf Club. Where are you really located, and do you take private students?
  • Robert Birtch
    The bumping of the hip only initiates or positions you into the 5 to 10 degree spine tilt. If the shoulders are on a level plane it is more likely you will have a slight over the top swing, and if your left shoulder is lower then the right, you will get the big slice. the right shoulder should be lower "right handed golfer" and the spine tilt/ bumping of the hip puts us in that position. What I have noticed for myself is that when I'm in a good position behind the ball I waggle and that seems to get me comfortable/confident and I do not swing any harder then 3/4 or 75%, I think there are two things that happen No#1 is alignment and No#2 is swing speed, for good contact and muscle memory you need to swing within yourself, if you over swing then you will find yourself out of position and out of balance most times . I go up the tree and I let my arms and hands free fall and then I pop up like a pop tart out of a toaster and come up "up" to a balanced finish and I usally hit the shot I invisioned in my pre routine.
  • Allan Newstadt
    Don,

    I also have trouble coming over the top on my downswing. What helped me on the driving range was thinking of throwing the Santa sack of toys over my left shoulder on the followthrough. Only trouble is my 70% swing is going about 70% distance. Nice to get straighter shots though.

    Regards,
    Allan
  • Brian
    Don, I am so excited that you are addressing this issue. I have the exact same problem and maybe a lot of your subscribers do. I'm anxious to read your follow-up discussions. This is one of things I really like about the PPGS system and your constant refining feedback.
  • Don, I too am confused on pre-loading the right side. Should a player pre-load 60% left side and 40% right side. When I get it right, my drives are long and straight. But it seems like several drives per round are thin. Maybe I am putting too much weight onto the right side. Your comments please...
  • Max Gordon Lee
    That's excellent advice about the downswing -- I had a similar problem in the beginning, but once I learned to shift my weight to the left during the swing, I found myself hitting straighter and farther. I also say to myself, during the swing, the words "dollar bill" -- the famous line from the golfing movie "Tin Cup", in which pro golfer Kevin Costner reminds himself to SKIM the grass, not take it along with the ball. Oddly enough, repeating that mantra makes me concentrate more on maintaining my swing in the slot.
  • Pat Price
    The main key(s) to starting the down swing.
    Thank You
  • armand fredette
    Don,
    I am having difficulty with stopping backswing at " 3/4 thumbs up" especially with the driver. Could be too fast in takeaway leading to breakdown and overswing. What would be your key to correct this fatal flaw?
    Thanks
  • Brian Barry
    Are you an advocate of the Medicus Swing Trainer?
  • Brian Barry
    This info is very confusing are you an advocate of the Medicus Swing Trainer?
  • Charlie
    Good tip - seems that I've been going to the SBG - a habit developed through the old swing days. I'll try it on a couple buckets of balls this afternoon.
  • Dan Balestriere
    Don,

    Your method excellent, When I execute it properly, a perfect shot emerges. However, I struggle with a cupped wrist at the top. Is the cupped wrist related to swinging in the SBG?? Possibly my club getting too much behind?? Your answer welcome.

    Also, I reside in the Tampa, Florida area. Are you ever in this area for a prsonal lesson??

    Regards,

    Dan Balestriere
  • BobM
    I too have always had problems trying to get the hands to drop "into the slot". I can bump my hips to the left, but my upper body and hands also move to the left by the same amount. The hands never seem to drop during this movement
  • Good stuff. The over the top move is usually due to weight shifting to the outside of your right foot. Instead you should be loading on the inside of the right foot and the bump will occur naturally. http://www.aboutjuniorgolf.com
  • Danny Arnold
    I take the club back with the right side with a limber left arm and a strong rightside. My right shoulder starts the down swing. Is this totally wrong? I normally hit a seven iron 145 to 150 yds. A 5 irron 175 to 180 yds. A 3iron around 205 yds. Adriver around 245 to 25o yds. I use i3 Ping irons.
  • William G Smith
    Thanks for the input. I also am looking forward to your next article with regard to the first step in the down swing. I was told to begin with the left foot. Ain't working.
  • Rick
    I am amazed at how quickly I regress back to the former "incorrect" way of swinging the club. I have to continually focus on the basics each an every time. Is there a point where the PPGS becomes the default setting in my brain and muscle memory?
  • marv
    Where do I find a local pro to help with learning the peak performance gold swing?
  • Paul Henry
    Don,

    How quiet should your lower body be?

    The other day I went out and tried to hit the the ball very cleanly by keeping my lower body as still as possible, so that I wouldn't dip into the ball or slide past it. It worked to the extent that I succeeded in making clean contact on virtually every shot. On the other hand, I felt that my lower body was not at all "athletic" and I was probably swinging mostly with my arms and losing distance.

    How can I involve my legs more and consistently hit the ball cleanly?

    Paul
blog comments powered by Disqus
10 FREE VIDEO LESSONS
Need Help? Have Questions? Click Here For Live Chat Help!
Don’s Putting Video System:
Recent Comments
Don’s Driver Video Series
Recent Posts
Don’s Inner Circle Membership