Honda and Toshiba Classic Winners’ Swings

Written by dontrahan on March 8, 2010 — View Comments

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This past weekend was a good one for seeing some great golf. Camilo Villegas won the Honda Classic by 5 shots, shooting 13 unde,r which is the tournament record score since the Honda moved to PGA National Golf Club. Camilo shot a final round 2 under 68 to extend his 54 hole 3 shoot lead to win by 5 shots. It is really a great feeling to come to the last hole, especially a difficult one like at PGA National, where there is water all the way down the right side and around the green, with a big lead. It makes breathing a lot easier.

The Champions Tour, Toshiba Classic, was won by Freddy Couples shooting a 6 under 65 to win by 4 shots. In three Champions Tour events this year, Fred has finished runner-up, and won the last 2 tournaments. I guess we could say Fred is presently dominating the Champions Tour.

This week’s winners have quite different golf swings. Camilo is a very short ¾ length backswing and is quite vertical, standing his club up much as we teach with the PPGS. On the other hand, Freddy has a full parallel back swing and quite a big shoulder turn. Both have smooth and slow tempo backswing and are quit explosive in their transitions to the forward swing and are both considered long hitters. Let’s take a closer look at each of their swings.

Camilo has a very athletic setup and the only point I would change is narrowing up his stance to shoulder wide. I like Camilo’s backswing a lot. He is slow and deliberate and holds his knees so they barely move. His backswing turn is well short of 90 degrees and he stands his club up pretty good to around 11:30. Overall his backswing is quite close to PPGS standards.

Camilo’s forward upswing to his finish is the one place I would, if he worked with me, make some changes. I feel his transition lateral shift has too much lateral movement. If he gets ahead of the ball he hits it a little heavy and right, especially with his irons. I believe it is because his stance is too wide and he has to shift farther to reach his forward foot. Then, because of that, I see Camilo sometimes tends to get stuck back behind the ball before impact and his finish often has a reverse C look. So that is the main reason why I would narrow his stance. With that done, then he will be able to shift over to his left/front foot and leg, smoother and quicker so he can then pop tart and stand up to a dynamically balanced T – Finish.

Freddy Couples, as we all know, has a smooth and silky flowing swing. He has a full parallel back swing with a pretty good amount of shoulder turn. What I noticed yesterday watching him is that he has very little left/front foot and knee action and a very limited hip turn. I have watched Freddy on Tour and he sets up aimed quite left and thus open to his target. He then makes his shoulder turn to well short of his open toe line, to what would be just about dead over his toe line if he were aimed parallel left of his target as we do in the PPGS.

From there he just swings down his aiming line and releases to a pretty good T – Finish except for one important point. He tends to let his arms finish wide and fold around his torso. This is a finish position that puts a lot of stress and strain on the lower back, which as we all know is a problem for him. I would correct it with teaching Freddy to swing his arms and club up and over the center of his left/forward shoulder with his right hand finishing very close to his left ear. Then he would recoil and relax his arms and club straight back down in front of his torso, with the club pointing at the target to emphasize and feel that he finished square to his target.

What I was really impressed with Freddy in his ball striking is that I saw him hit two sand wedges in a row to 1 foot and then 2 feet. What jumped out at me was both impacts for these wedges barely took a divot. I also saw him hit a 7 or 8 iron and again, his divot was small and very shallow with almost no grass flying out of the ground. He is definitely playing nip it; tear the grass out of the ground divot golf.

Congratulations to Camilo and Freddy on their victories. I am sure we will be seeing a lot more of them playing well and contending and winning in the future. They both have solid swings and do many good things that we teach in the PPGS.

The Surge!

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Posted in Golf Instruction

Larry

J. Griffin -

What Richard is describing is "hinging of the wrists" and what your describing is an old term "holding the tray" or "throwing the ball".
So, if your right handed, at the top of the swing the left wrist is flat and the right wrist is cupped.
If you can hold that right wrist you will naturally release through impact and you just gained some serious power.
In Ben Hogan terms pronation/supination of the left wrist.
JLynn PPGS Fitter/Instructor

Richard,
I don't believe you have read everything that has been written about cocking the wrists on this forum. Google "wrist cock" and read the definition of what it is. It is not the bending of the wrist towards the side of the forearm such as if you were to take your thumb and pull it back. Cocking of the wrists is the bending of the wrists backwards where the back of the hand is moving towards the top of the forearm as if you were arm wrestling and some is about to put your arm down. For right handers, the right wrist cocks and the left wrist bows.
Larry

Richard :

Thanks for the info.

A friend of mine lives in the Carlisle area in England and gave me this information.
We were planning on a golf excursion to Spain.
He uses the Pro Stingers and made me aware of them since these spikes aren't common knowledge in North America.
At the time he said Europe still allowed metal spikes because the ruling wasn't made yet but that was 3 years ago maybe the ruling is in place now.
As far as I know the course he belongs to still allows metal spikes but I will ask him.

I still hear complaints from golfers that used metal spikes so I am not alone.
I called Champ and yes even they got complaints.

The one thing that puzzles me is the lack of information to transition from metal to plastic spikes.
I guess there is no transition possible.
If you weigh over 200 pounds you are screwed period.
So I am speaking for a few golfers out there with my concerns.

For now I cheat by using 3-4 spikes on each shoe and it helps.

Just in an email from my friend:
-------
You can tell the guy that from the Manchester area to Scotland MOST clubs allow metal spikes even championship courses.
I have not been stopped in 10 years, and you can quote me
-------
Robert

Boys Boys Boys, Since I have been introduced to this game 5 years ago I have never in all my sports, have had such difficulty understanding the swing, the repeatability and consistancy of the golf swing has made this the most difficult sport for me to master. For the last 5 years with the help of the information highway, satilite dishes, magazines, golf books from the greats, like Hogan, Pennick, etc etc all the teaching pro's like Leadbetter, Smith, Harmon. I have read and viewed every golf swing, when there club goes through the impact zone they are all in the same position. I see bits and pieces of the PPGS in a lot of the pro's which Don has just commented on, two of the winners this past week and has pointed out things I have been seeing for the past year. This is the good stuff we want to hear and discuss in these blog's, how come no one changed Arnie's swing over the years, how come no one changed Travinos swing, these self taught golfers swung this way because it was the only thing they could do at that time to put there body in a position at impact that worked for them. Don has given us a new understanding or style to help us get to that position at impact. A.J. Bonar talks about people's limited abilities and in his video's shows how they can still play golf, but A.J. does not show you anything other the little home run move through impact. Don has that move in his swing, you've heard Don say skip the stone on the water and turn over through impact. Most of us get into trouble when we get the hands past parallel, we lose where are hands are and we get in trouble trying to re-route our hands back into proper position, with the limited turn 3/4 back swing you allways know where your hands are and Don has showed us that this is all you need to be a more consistant ball stricker. Freddy couples has had back problems all his adult life and he will continue to have problems, when Freddy lost to Tom watson a couple of weeks ago, Feddy's back was bothering him, I could see it in the body language. Don I think everyone that is having problems with this swing, can't seem to grasp the concept of swinging there arms and not there body, Don I look forward everyday to open up my emails keep up the good work and all you guys keep on asking questions, we all gain from it.
richard

Larry - not sure where you got the idea about metal spikes being allowed in Europe. They are banned for amateurs on all courses here in South Spain (over 40 courses within an hour's drive of my house) I also played in the UK for 10 years and never found a course in the Oxford area that permitted metal spikes. In fact a playing buddy of mine was thrown off the course for using them and our fourball became three very quickly!!
richard

Still struggling to understand what you mean by wrist cock. Before you start, I had read just about everything you have written and looked at all the video I bought from you. Looking again at DJ's swing on youtube – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZK-SqKWhq8A I see this:

As he starts his take away, the club is already behind his right foot before his hands even move!! You can call this "setting the wrists" or what we used to call cocking the wrists but it is clear that the angle between the club and his hands/arms changes drastically before the arms even move ONE inch. Is he just being a BAD BOY and not listening to Dad? When I got your materials I consciously tried to have a straighter/wider take away with less early break. All that happened is that I lost about 30% of my already pretty pathetic distance.

It seems to me that all the power comes from club nead speed generated by the acceleration of the clubhead as opposed to the speed of the arms. This can only happen if the clubhead is moving faster than the arms and that in turn implies the unwinding that occurs as the cocked wrists return to the position at address by uncocking?

BTW - exactly the same occurs in your swing whatever you might call it. Now this is not a criticism of your swings. If it works for you and others than it is worth pursuing but why persist in saying that you two don't cock your wrists? Beats me and you must lose a lot of concientious followers through denial. ......
Ron Davidson

I couldn't agree more with you Jerry. It sure is a pleasure to read Don's analysis of those swings.
jerry foley

If anyone still is reading this thread my comment on "Stuart's" comment is this; you are somewhat correct in that no one including Don (and I don't speak for him or anyone) would offer advise to Freddy or Tiger or Jack unless they asked him. I believe Don is offering advise to "us" saying "If" he were advising those guys. I think I got that right? I mean, who asks "Johnny Miller" for swing advise on air? He banters away about any of those tour pro's and what they do wrong. We as the audience want the experts to offer advise or make observations about the pro's and their nuances in swing style. As a student of the game myself I "think" many pro's have high maintenance swings that require more tuning and practice than others whose swings seem much simpler and easier to repeat. Watching Tom Watson swing looks so natural to me that I believe his staying power is his simple swing and rhythm whereas Arnie tailed off late in his career I believe due to a more complex and athletic swing mechanics. But hey, nobody cares what I think. I do however enjoy hearing Don break down the swings of the greats as I'm sure most do as well.
Larry

I am 58 started golfing in 1970. I am 215-220 pounds and 6'-2".

Played with metal spikes up until the ban started in 1994-5 that's 24-5 years of being told to start the downswing with a push from the right side.

Since then due to the lack of traction with the right foot and still using a big shoulder turn, my lower back and right hip have deteriorated along with my swing.
I developed a pull from using soft spikes, I can still drive the ball over 300 yards if I let the pull happen.
I can still get my distances with the irons if I let the pull happen.
Of course you can imagine my score when the drive lands in trouble on the left or the ball lands pin high but left off the green.

At one point in time I developed an 'avoid the pain swing' and it worked but there was one more piece of equipment missing in the bag -- 'duct tape' so consequently I lost that swing.

I have tried everything, different clubs, shafts, changed swings short, medium and long and do this and do that and so on.
The long swing and pull still wins, less pain on the lower back go figure.

So instead of torturing myself on the golf course I patronize the range with my trusty metal spikes and golf once in a while and only on dry days.
It's amazing how much traction, flexibility and torque have been lost using soft spikes.

I had to laugh watching the other players in the group spraying the ball and not understanding why yet they boast a 5 handicap -- amazing.

So I when I go on golf vacation it will be Europe where the metal spikes are still allowed.
kenboe

Thanks Surge, I have had three back surgeries un golf related about 4years ago. I am lucky I can still play. I see the benifits of your teaching. I can't wait to play this spring,with alot less pain not to mention with a better game also. Your swing method takes me back to how my swing was in junior high and high school before I tinkered. I am now 41 and really exitited to get playing again. I was close to a scratch player before I tore my back up loading a hot tubb at work. I look forward to using and passing on your method. I would love to become certified. let me know what it takes.
Thankyou, Ken
Mike Bove

Hey, Stuart;

Give us a break! Surge is not trying to alter Freddie's or Camillo'e swing.
He is just pointing out parts of a swing that might help some of us.
Ed Dunphy

Why isn't DJ playing this weekend? If he didn't qualify for Doral, there was still the Puerto Rico Open. I'd like to see him continue his rise up the money list and World Rankings!
Ronnie McCurry

Wow it is going to be expensive to put graphite shafts in your irons. I think I would find a fitter and likely stay with steel.
Ronnie McCurry

Ken, you used Golfsmith before here is what they have with .355T shafts.

http://www.golfsmith.com/browse.php?Ntt=.355T+s...
Tom Woods

Surge - speaking of Freddy Couples. I was wondering If you or any bloggers have any adice or thoughts on back braces for golf. I came about this swing probably the same way many of us did with the promise of less back pain. I am using the swing and have a lot less lower back pain but still am sore after playing. There are alot of braces on the market, was wondering if I could get some feed back.

Thanks
Stuart

Although I like reading your thoughts on both the golf swing and golf itself, I don't like that you try to analyse how you would teach the top players in the world how to swing "your" way. Now I'm sure if they suggested that you should swing "their" way you would politely decline the advice. Now why is this any different to you suggesting that they should do as you say they should. In the case of Freddie couples he's a major champion and a multiple tour winner and has swung basically the same way all the way through with sutble alterations to improve parts of the swing that isn't working for them. Now obviously their swings have got them to where they are and ate successful with those swings so other than making minor adjustments to their exsisting technique tuen there is no reason they should change. I'm sure noone on this website would tell tiger woods or Jack or Arnie how to swing would they
JLynn PPGS Fitter/Instructor

Hey Cape Town,
You are spot on. Also, just putting in a lighter weight isn't the total answer. You have to have the correct vibrational frequency and MOI of the club in order for it to have maximum playability. Also, if going to graphite in the Titleist, you're options are limited as to taper tips shafts. I'd look at Aerotech shafts. They are an excellent shaft and the only graphite that Jack Nicklaus would play in his irons.
Pascual Babes Pastor

Don

The set up and the swing I learned from your video has completely improved and made my sand blast from greenside bunkers very consistent. However I do not remember seeing the set up for hitting from fairway bunkers. This is one of my major problem. What adjustment should I do from my set up from the fairway. Should I overclub and change the position of the ball etc. Please help.
More power to you and regards
Pasxcual
Robert Meade

TO BOB MARTIN,
Hey pal don't wait for the dvd's. It's a download. If you bought program you got it already go to the members site and log into "products" you'll find it. Still not there? Call customer service.
Good luck and enjoy,
Down the middle,
Robert
D. Battles

Have enjoyed the downloads. Am in the process of encorporating, rather than copying, many of your ideas. I seem to hit it better by turning a little instead of tilting. Always have. Wish the driving video by DJ were cheaper. That's alot for one video and no supplemental stuff thrown in, don't you think? Look at all the various myths, lessons and secrets we got for our initial investment.
Len Martin

I love the swing.
Hit the first 11 greens today and it was too easy. The best day of driving in years.
Harry

Hey Andy Hammer:
PPGS stands for Peak Performance Golf Swing!
Hope that helps.
H
Matthew Craft

Regarding the point made earlier by Don, I have just recently started using the PPGS and am already very impressed by the consistancy of strike. I also have found that the results seem to favour a gentle fade as opposed to my previous draw. I wondered if this was the normal for most users? It's obvioulsy not a problem as the trueness of the connection means the outcome is far easier to control. Thanks surge!
David Springer

I have to admit. You are correct about the PPGS system of golf. Today I finally broke 90. Had an 88. Being 81 years old I still have ambitions of shooting my age. You have to be patient and things
will fall into place. By the way, I belong to Breamar CC in Tarzana Ca. and walk and carry my bag. Because of the 3/4 swing and minimum turn, I have no soreness in my back or shoulders. When I
stated you are correct, I was referring to your statement that it will take time to learn to swing with
any amount of consistency.
Dave
Bob Martin

Hi Surge, Have been reading the stuff you send out by email and am awaiting your DVD's etc from the PPGS package I bought from you online about a week ago. Am having some difficulty understanding some phrases you use in your emails like 'catchers mitt,' 'up a tree' and the latest in your email of the 8th March where you refer to Camilo '...His backswing turn is well short of 90 degrees and he stands his club up pretty good to around 11:30.' Now maybe this will all become clear when I get your package, but what on earth do you mean by the 11.30 reference and the others I've mentioned here? Your reply would be appreciated as I am keen to start the course! Regards, Bob
Bill Kerney

What a super analysis Surge!

If you added in actual pictures of Camilo's and Freddy's swings illustrating each one of the ideas you are discussing then that would help us better understand what you intend to convey.

I really appreciate the amount of time and effort that you put into these messages and your willingness to share your insights with the rest of us.
mike

don,
been reading and listening for a number of weeks now and i want to congratulate you and d.j. on your accomplishments. its gotta be great to have a son living his dream and lovin his dad at the same time. however, i've come to the conclusion, at 57 yrs of age, that any instructor who complicates the game with thoughts that involve a catchers mitt, and straight up the tree, and 3/4 of the way back and the bump, and finish in a T, yada yada yada.......partner, i don't have enough time left to get all of that stuff right!!! LOL i can read it in your responses here.....and yes, i've found help from someone's dvd's (that shall remain nameless) that has simplified instruction for me....so that i can see improvement without several years of tweeks...... thx anyway, partner and congrats again. btw....been playin for 20yrs(give or take) and play to an 8 hdcp.
Ted Edwards DC

It was great to see Camilo back on top the of the leaderboard. I'd wondered what happened to him. I don't recall him having a win last year which I thought odd considering how well he'd done the previous year. At one point in his final round I noticed he'd reached 5 under and than he gave 2 back at 11 and 12. Still considering that there were a lot of 80's shot on the course his win sure is impressive.

That brings up a point that Don might like to address. The reason that certain courses fit different players better than others. This one obviously fit Camilo's style of play and his "eye" too. And we won't know until next week whether he'll string a couple of great tournaments together or play a course that he struggles with and play mediocre.

Congrats to DJ for another top 20 finish. Wonder what place he might have finished at if he'd only shot bogey on the 3 holes he doubled on. This is one ranking you don't want to 8th. Than there's the 9 bogey's 5 on par 3's- decreasing those by only 30%% would have made a big difference too. To be fair Camilo also had 9 bogeys but offset that was 22 birdies to rank 1 in that position. And he averaged 2 putts per round lower than DJ even though DJ rank #1 in GIR.

The stats once again show us how important the short game is - especially putting - which I'm betting most of us don't put a lot of attention to because let's face it getting good at putting is boring.

Good Golfing - Ted Edwards DC
Andy Hammer

What (again..) exactly does PPGS stand for ?

Sorry ! . . . . / A...
ctjoe

To Ken,

What's your swingspeed? How many seconds to complete the swing? What's your transition from top of backswing to impact, slow, medium, fast? What's your wrist to floor measurement?
I'am assuming that the shafts that are in the Titleist heads are stock where the "one size fits all" mentality of the OEM's kicks in. I'am betting that within the set of Titleist's, you have 2 to 3 different flex's As soon as you bought those clubs of the rack, you were at a disadvantage. One other thing, Titleist uses .355" taper tip shafts and you get what you get. You can't tip trim these shafts to fine tune to your spec's.
Steve Neuenschwander

I really liked your comment about Freddie's lack of a divot. I seldom get much of a divot as well. When I do it is because I dipped my right shoulder and then my whole body pays for the mistake with pain. I admire people who can make good divots when they need it for a particular shot. I just don't have the strength in my arms and wrists to do it. So much for back spin.
Don Drexel

Don,
I'm a 6 handicaper that is tired of the big turn, with the inside out stuff that has I believe made me an inconsistant ball striker. I bought your videos, looked at all of them and tried it out on the range. I like it very much. I wanted to ask you that I did seem to fade the ball with this swing. Could be just need to get used to the timing on the downswing? Maybe still coming over it a bit? Any suggestions?
Thanks,
Don
mark plunkett

Commenting on the Vertical PPGS it seems crucial to me that 'in the mitt then up the tree' is so important.Many of the references & videos refer to 'just PUT it in the mitt then lift it up the tree'...specifically HOW are we doing this?
My question is are we doing this with the arms rotating into the mitt then lifting vertically with arms (both?) & are the shoulders/hips/body being directed by this movement ie.following or do they play a core role in this movement.
Also relating to the arm rotation...is this dominating the downswing-upswing (& the body just rotating with it?) or is the body rotation/turn or weight shift leading or predominating the downswing-upswing & the rotating arms following this core body-turn into the T-finish?
Could i have some in-put on this?