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Just the Thought can DO IT!
John Walowac asked a question concerning hitting down on the ball, mentioning that all the pros take divots.
I have been told by hundreds of golfers, men and women, kids and seniors, that when they began playing golf and an iron was put into their hands, the first thing they were taught was to “HIT DOWN ON THE BALL.” Some tell me they were told to pound the ball into the ground. Before I make any comments on hitting down or swinging up, the following responses from readers of the Daily Lesson to John’s question/comment are really great and informative and merit being reviewed here in the starting position.
To John Walowac :
They do “hit down” — the question is really – -how much down? If you read SURGE’s teachings carefully, he is advocating “less down” (almost flat at impact) than is the current vogue on tour.
IF you have well manicured, well tended fairways, and IF you are YOUNG and STRONG, the “big divot” will work. However, creating the divot wastes energy that could be better employed in moving the ball.
However, IF your fairways are “less than pristine” then you must hit a shallow divot.. I learned to play on fairways with very thin turf (about 1/4 inch) over a hard pan clay base — almost like concrete!
Take two to three “big divots” on those fairways and your next stop was the hospital for new wrists, elbows or shoulders — perhaps all three. One soon learned to play iron shots more like most instructors teach for fairway woods — that is to “just nip” the ball from the grass.
Noel says:
The shallow divot is taken after the ball is on its trajectory to the target. It does not impede the follow through. The only way anyone is going to master this is by practice, practice, and more practice. Sure, pros take divots all the time, but they’re always following through aren’t they? They finish “up.”
Barry says:
Man! Where were you, when I needed you? When I first started to swing a club, I would never take a divot. I couldn’t for some reason. Yet, I was able to eventually break 90. When golf became a popular TV pastime, I saw divots galore, and I felt I had to get me some of those divots. Well, with instruction, I learned how to take divots, sometimes deep divots you could park a truck in. Do you know what happened? Right! My shoulders, elbows and wrists, individually or in various combinations, hurt, and my score went south. These days, it is unusual for me to break 100. Then, you come along and I learn that I was doing just fine in the beginning, probably should have stayed with it. I feel reborn, thanks to you, Rev Surge.
Louis says:
Re hitting down on the ball – anyone who learned the game in countries that suffer frost in winter would
be well aware that that is the incorrect & very painful way to hit a ball!
The Surge says:
Great observations and input of personal experiences from students really add more meaning to any discussion. The teacher teaches. The key is what do the students learn and how do they learn it and relate to it. Student feedback tells the teacher the success of the lesson. Their comments are powerful learning messages for the teacher and other students.
The PPGS principle of “Swing UP to the T – Finish” versus hitting down on the ball is, for many golfers, a radical thought to wrap their mind and game around. After all, hitting down is such a mandated and necessary part to impact has been taught for so long. But saying, teaching and doing something for a real long time doesn’t necessarily mean it is best or correct. It is just doable. The key to getting better, improving and learning, is keeping an open mind and learning new concepts and adjusting when they are correct and or better. Swinging up is one of these new, revolutionary concepts. Swinging up is simply based on two points.
The first is gravity, which is defined as, “The pull on all bodies in the earth’s sphere toward the earth’s center.” Simply put, everything on this earth is constantly being pulled downward. “What goes up, must come back down.” DOWN IS FREE. UP IS NOT. We must concentrate on the up since it is not free. We better be placing and putting our emphasis where more energy is needed to complete the task. Impact is described as on-on-on. The club approaches ON the aiming line, hits the ball while ON the aiming line and is square to it –and leaves ON the aiming line…accelerating.
The key is accelerating. Acceleration after the DOWN of impact (which is free because of gravity helping) now needs extra energy and effort. The forward upswing is now going up and gravity is no longer a free helping buddy, but now a” bad buddy,” hindering us. The energy only comes from the golfer. The thought of swinging up, initiates a better lower body-leading transition and a shallower divot at impact. Both of these results aid acceleration to and through impact to “swing up” explosively to a balanced T – Finish.
The second concept is simply based on mental thinking and imagery. What we think, imagine and see in our minds eye changes our actions. In the case of “swinging up, that changes our golf swing. Yes, it can be that simple. The mind is a powerful tool. Change your thought process and imagery and you can change your golf swing and improve your ball striking. The comments above from fellow readers attest to that. Thanks to all of them for taking the time to share with all of us.
The Surge!
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How do I hit a draw?
DOES IT MATTER IF THE LEFT HEEL COMES UP A LITTLE BIT ON THE BACKSWING?
Hi,
I like your postings in general, thanks for that, but please stop referring to gravity as a major factor. Elementary physics will teach you that the role of gravity is just a mere few percent of all forces acting on the swing.
Greetings,
Clemens (physicist)
Hi Surge I am pro from England to cut a long story short i currently cant hit a ball without a massive shank i have tried everything,what i do feel is my wrists feel totally out of control i have focused to much on them and have lost any natural feeling i had. Please help as i cant play with my piers at the moment things are that bad.
More on taking divots:
I think the Surge has the right handle on taking divots. I don’t see how taking a divot (of any size) can increase the backspin on the ball, which is what puts the brakes on to reduce roll-out on the green.A divot is simply the sod you remove from in front of the ball and is caused by hitting the ball before the club head reaches the bottom of its arc When the club head strikes the ball, it causes the ball to roll up the club head to some degree, which causes backspin. What happens when the club head takes a divot
is the club is delofted and consequently launches the ball lower than it would if if the ball was struck when the club head was at the very bottom of the arc.Obviously, the shallower the divot, the more loft and consequenyly the most backspin and the shortest rollout, I still don’t understand why taking a divot helps control distance and accuracy the way the pros teach. Comments??
Don:
Years ago I use to play to a five on tough Donald Ross golf course [Westbrook CC / Mansfield, OH]. Now at age 71 and a “weak back” I’d love to use a 3/4 backswing; but I always lose my tempo and timing and wind up with a “stab and stare” effort. IN the same way I was never very good in the fifties using that “pause at the top.”
thanks, take care… mo murray
I have difficulty getting any distance. It is not because of a lack of strength. I swing hard and usually make good contact. I seem to be “all arms” with very little wrist action. Do you break your wrist during the back swing? I was taught that they should be relatively stiff until the down swing. Help!
Jim
To Chris
Help is on the way! Your problem with “the shanks” is almost history!
Immediately read and reread the comments to the post “Swing Up, Stand Up: Everything is Timing. Then read and reread “Words from Warren.”
Surge;
I am a little confused with your takeaway(into the catchers mitt)and then vertical to the top of your backswing.That appears to be a two piece take-a-away(a mid-course change of direction).Please correct me if I am wrong.If not, please lell me or show me how I make a smooth backswing when I have to change my direction mid-stream!!!
Thanks,
Phil
Surge,
As you advise, I am loading my right side before the take away. The problem is the transition back to the left side. I am not able to transition my weight back to the left.
I would appreciate you comments as to how to accomplish this.
Thank you.
To Jim
Carefully read and digest Don’s post “Words from Warren.” Then read the accompanying
“comments.” In a pure swing motion, the wrists automatically perform their proper function.
I’ve been trying to reconcile my experience hitting golf balls – sometimes well, sometimes badly -with my knowledge of physics and your writings here. A good hit seems to me to boil down to a question of getting the right things to rotate about the right hinge points. Let me explain…
First of all, I believe one of the major sources of energy for a good hit is derived from a harnessing of the angular momentum of the golf swing. By this I mean the same phenomenon that allows a slowly rotating ice skater with arms held out to draw in his/her arms and accelerate to a very rapid rotation – without any other effort on his/her part. The golfing downswing equivalent of this seems to be an initial rotation of the upper body around the spine with the arms and club held as far away as possible from the body, followed by a drawing in of the arms to as close to the body as possible at the time of contact with the ball. The initial rotation sets up the angular momentum which is subsequently conserved by the laws of physics throughout the downswing, which means the clubhead will automatically accelerate without the golfer’s conscious effort or knowledge when he/she draws in the arms towards the body at impact.
The second rotation is a consequence of this ice-skater effect. Because the clubhead is inevitably accelerating as the upper body rotates towards impact, it follows that the clubhead must start the downswing from a position well behind the hands, In this way, at impact, the clubhead just catches up with the hands thereby generating maximum velocity at that point. In other words, it is necessary to create a pronounced cocking of the wrists during the backswing so that the club can accelerate around the wrists during the downswing. Empirically, I find that the longer I can hold on to this cocked position of the wrists during the downswing, the more powerful is the eventual contact, but the ice-skater effect makes it difficult to do this without considerable control of the wrists.
Finally, if all these movements (upper body, arms and club) are coordinated so that the club head moves in a fixed plane, the transfer of energy from clubhead to ball is maximised and the shot is thereby optimised.
I would be interested to hear how you reconcile these observations with your theory and practice.
Thanking you in anticipation,
Trevor
To Phil
You wrote “…I am a little confused with your takeaway…”
You then addded “… please lell me or show me how I make a smooth backswing when I have to change my direction mid-stream!!!”
In answer to both statements, read and reread Don’s post “Words from Warren.” Then read the “comments” section. In a pure swing motion, It’s all a one piece takeaway. It’s all one motion.
Reference to hit down//// Back in the forties my dad a golf pro started me with a 3/4 backswing and stated practice,practice .Do not hit down on the ball . I played golf for many years a scratch and single digit player. I adheared to the SURGE it works.
Hello Don……A couple of weeks ago I ordered your program. I was wondering how long it takes to fullful orders. I used my credit card to pay so you had the money instantly.
Please advise when I will receive the program ordered.
Thanks
Larry
Surge, Good topic!
I am a tall (6′ 6″) player and have never been one to take huge divots. I focus on hitting down on irons into the ball and skimming the turf before coming up to the finish. If I do take a big divot I’ve probably hit the ground before the ball. My purest struck shots sweep the ball with just a grazing of the turf afterwards. I am a pretty powerfull player that hits my 5 iron 195 yds. Late hands and a big turn to the target generates power that I use to sweep the ball towards the target. My focus is hitting through the ball not down on it. I often focus on the front of the ball at address to set the mental image of doing that. Once you can draw that image, the sweeping of the ball is easier to achieve and you’ll be gaining distance on your iron play and striking the ball crisp! Hope this helps.
Tommy Tucson
Chris from New England
I feel your pain! I have been in your shoes myself about ten years ago. I was playing great shooting scores in the low 80’s and wham…….The Shanks! Took me about six months to get over it! Let me give you some advice……..It is mostly mental, once you do it a few times your confidence is out the window. Secondly you are firing your swing with your right hand. Practice hitting shots with your feet together and using your left hand only. This well be tough at first but stick with it. Once you start hitting solid shots it will help you get the feel of releasing the club with the left side, and your shank will soon fade. Don’t worry about distance, just about making good solid contact with the left arm only swing. Once you feel confident with that swing you can xwork on the two hand swing again, but start out with your feet together to develope the feel of upper body rotation only. Once that is working your ready to strike the ball and put those shanks away……..P.S never say that word again, just refer to it as the S. lol! Good luck!
Tommy Tucson
im with surge, taking a big divot causes problems.like fat sshots and shot leaking to the right because of the club opening at impact.
jim , left heel up a no no, with narrow stance and bowed knees turn shoulders 70 degrees. that will get club in mitt thenraise your arms to shoulder height .bump hips fire club to t finish.
Pros and their divots.
The great Aussie golfer, Peter Thompson, won 5 British Open Championships and placed highly in several others.
A friend, who was a scratch golfer, told me that he followed Peter Thompson for 18 holes during a tournament. He said that he did not see Thompson take a single divot during the entire round.
Thompson just nicked the ball off the ground.
Surge, The pros take a divot AFTER hitting the ball. Sandy Lyle used to try to take a bacon strip type divot rather than a pork chop type divot with medium irons (see Think Like Tiger by John Andrisani). So even the top tournament pros at the height of their game realise it is not good to take too much of a divot. Personally, if I take much of a divot it is usually because I have hit the ball fat. I’m with you. It isn’t necessary to take a big (or any) divot in order to hit a good shot.
“I am a little confused with your takeaway(into the catchers mitt)and then vertical to the top of your backswing.That appears to be a two piece take-a-away(a mid-course change of direction). ”
This is to Phil:
Let me take a shot at your question. I had the same dilemna of Surge’s advise on this. Then I figured out ( I think ) that this “raise your arms straight up the tree” to complete the backswing is just a mental image to which Surge uses as a key thought. Actually ( I think ), he doesn’t just pick up his arms and club straight up in the air, otherwise that would break the circular plane of the backswing. What he is saying is that you use the motion to finish getting the club to the 3/4 backswing “top” by lifting rather than turning the shoulders farther, as is the current industry mode of teaching. What is actually happening is that the backswing “half-circle” , as I will term it, is more of an elliptical motion. The club is being moved back and up from the catcher’s mitt with more of a shortened, or flatter, circular path, as I understand it.
Now, comes the moment of truth in the swing, as far as I’m concerned. You have made the 3/4 or 70 degree shoulder turn and backswing…OK, now what? Well this is where Surge says you get a freebie from gravity. And this is where you want to make absolutely positive that you don’t screw it up by working against natural laws…gravity. In other words, don’t induce ANY force that artificially holds the club in that raised position…let in come down on its own as it is want to do. IMPORTANT note here: As you make your “bump” to transfer some weight back towards your front side(left side if you are right-handed ), the club and HANDS will begin falling by themselves. They will “drop into the slot” automatically if you don’t try to manipulate them to do so.
After the “bump”, and the “natural” force of gravity has dropped them into the proper position, and subsequently begun the Forward swing, you then swing the club and hands as if they were moving LATERALLY for a second before exerting force again in the swing (working against gravity) to swing it up to a T-Finish. This move creates what you might think is a momentary flat spot in the circle of the swing,but in actuality it is more of a mental image on the Through swing that is analogous to Surge’s mental image of “swinging up the tree”, except it’s on the other side(forward side) of the ball. The actual circle will not be broken or disturbed and that is why the divot will be very thin, because the club is catching the ball at the Exact bottom, or maybe a touch before Exact bottom of the swing. Your shoulders will automatically be turning too as the club is swung to the top. I call this the ‘Freebie” on the forward swing. You don’t have to worry about that function anymore than you had to worry about the Backswing, and change of direction point, where gravity gives you the Freebie. The Swing Motion takes care of all that for you.
Disclaimer: I am not a pro, nor have I ever been one, but I did stay in a Holiday Inn last night!
If I have totally screwed up this explanation, this is why we have Surge here! LOL!
WARREN
a little off the path here surge but with xmas coming i was wondering what your thoughts are on the medicus golf club for training with the ppgs swing. thanx for pain free golf.
Mr. Bashir, instead to throw all your shit please call directly Ken Trahan PPGS Staff customer service at 888-847-9464. It’s free and your problem will be settle fastly. Be sure to have all the informations with you before you call. I hope you will check our comments to proceed your complaint.
To Bashir regarding a refund – If you would simply look at the very bottom of the comment page, you’d see that this comment section is to foster constructive conversation about the PPG method,, and not about questions on purchase of materials. All questions related to a refund should be directed to the PPG support people at the listed 800 number.
I am realy only a ‘ this year player ‘ not often breaking 50 on our nice 9 hole course in East Surrey , England . I was out on the course yesterday , a lot of rain this week meant the going was , shall we say ‘ sticky ‘ I have been reading all the comments about divots , personally I always think I’ve hit it wrong if I set the turf flying But yesterday the course was covered in divots. I put quite a few back that were nothing to do with me . In short it doesn’t take long . PUT EM BACK WHERE THEY CAME FROM .
Don,
why do woods/metals have curved faces unlike irons? surely the curved surface accentuates any slice or hook unless the ball is only ever hit by the “sweet” spot.Have asked this question of a few professionals, but I am yet to receive an acceptible answer.
regards……puzzled aussie ron.
Don,
News again from Canada ( near Toronto)
Weather not bad 5 or 6 C today ….but maybe this was our last day…up here in the land of the brave and cold…
I have said it before + will say it again …the flat left hand / wrist works like a dream on all shots + clubs….its the best advice / tip I’ve ever had…hit some long straight drives even in the cold air….and my buddies know and can see that I am hiting the ball better…….I have your program(worth every penny!!!!) and thanks for sharing so many secrets!!!!!,…As I said in a previous contribution…..it’s great to know that you are in control with the flat left wrist as you stand over the ball and you can expect good things to happen….Golf is so much more enjoyable!!!!
So between now and next April there is only one thing in my head : “Flat left wrist….”
Cheers, Jeremy F
Trevor makes a key mistake in his analysis of the golf swing. According to Surge, there is not conscious cocking of the wrist during the backswing. It is one motion, back and up; down and up. Further, I am 100% convinced that as you reduce the angles and rotation in the golf swing you gradually gain a repeatable swing subconciously.
I did like Trevor’s analigy to the skater doing turns on the ice with arms out, slow, and then bringing the arms in, fast…great thought.
Coach
Ron, the reason for the curved faces on woods/metals is something called the gear effect. When the ball is hit off center, the curvature creates spin to get the ball back toward the path it would have traveled if hit on center.
Try a drill that I use with all of my students. It promotes striking the ball first and creating a very shallow divot therefore allowing all of your energy to and through the ball to be 100%.
Paint a line on the ground the width of the ball that runs horizontal to your target. Place a ball on the line and make your swing. The focus is on making the divot past the line or in front of the ball. This will insure that the ball was struck cleanly and you will make a shallow divot. This drill forces you to swing your hands and not the club. It will increase your club speed also. http://www.aboutjuniorgolf.com
Hey Phil
I actually treat the “into the mitt and up the tree” very much like you described and this works very good for me. Sometimes it feels like a two piece takeaway but you do NOT stop the club at the catchers mitt, once you have put the club head in the catchers mitt, the arms go straight up but without a hestitation.
Happy Golfing
Ken
To Bashir: There is no record in our Invoice system that you have purchased any of our products. If you have any questions please call me personally Ken Trahan at 888-847-9464. And please stop slandering our business we are very legitimate, thanks Ken Trahan PPGS Customer Service.
Jim,
You ask if it matters if the left heel comes up a little in the backswing. The less the better and usually any lifitng eventually leads to more foot lift and left knee kicking inward. .
In fact, what is recommended in the PPGS is not coming up at all and staying grounded is the optimum position. The key to the limited turn 3/4 backswing is keeping the left (front) foot down as well as resisting the left knee and leg moving inward in the backswing. The foot down and the resisting keeping the knees wide gives a great stretch in the upper legs, hips, back, shoulders and arms making only the limited turn to the left arm over the toe line. This has the arms and club ready to swing straight up and down to impact for an on-on and on square and solid impact.
The Surge!
Dear Larry: I need more information to help you with your order, like first & last name E-MAIL etc: Please call me personally Ken Trahan PPGS Customer Service at 888-847-9464 so we get you assistance with your purchase.
To Bob Lind,
The simple and easiest way is close the clubface at address a little and make your regular swing. A closed club face at impact will put right to left pin on the ball and it will curve right to left, a draw for a right hander. Since the ball will draw to the left, you shoul daim a little right fo your target so the curve will end up at your target. Note: you will need to practice to learn how much closed club face gives how much draw from club to club.
The Surge!
to Clemens:
I must respectively disagree with your starments regarding gravity. With the club at the top of the backswing, in a VERTICAL position, the head is nearly 9 feet from the ground. If it were free to fall from this position, it would strike the ground going nearly 50 mph ( less a little for air resistance).
Even for Professional golfers, this represents at least 30% of their total club head speed — to perhaps 45% for many — for amatuer golfers with slower swing speeds, this per centange is much higher – perhaps 50% to maybe 75%. In any case it is a CONSIDERABLE per cent of total speed — and it is FREE.
The real problem is that that ball and club head are seperated in space by about 9 feet vertically, and perhaps 2 to 2 1/2 feet horizontaly and also by maybe 1 1/2 in front of the club “at the top” (x,y,z coordinate). For such a conidtion, a curve exists for the maximum velocity due to graivity alone acting on the body (club head in this case) It is called a “maximum acceleration due to gravity curve” and it strongly resembles a capital letter “J” (without the upturn on the left half) AMAZING – the swing SURGE advocates very neary duplicates this club head path (with in the limitations of the human body)
to NAAMAN :
Try this — it certainly helps me : as your backswing nears the finish of the “up the tree” position. try to feel a forward push from the ball of the toe on your rear foot, creating the forward “bump” and starting a forward weight shift. I know that SURGE says “there is no pause at the top” — but I certianly feel a tiny pause of the hands and club at the end of “up the tree” — The toe push should take place during this brief interval of time – probably less than 1/4 second, barely enough to time to “feel”
to BOB CHIPPS:
I agree with you (and SURGE) regarding shallow divots — however the THEORY of deep divots follows:
IF you strike the ball and ground simultaenously with a somewhatr downward blow, the ball is supposed to be “trapped” between the turf and the club, forcing the ball deeper into the grooves on the club face as the ball climbs the club, thus imparting more spin and control.
note : I said this is the THEORY — I personally do not “buy into” it — I relate it for information only
to Ron Starr:
The curvature on metal woods is to create a “gear effect” to help reduce hook and slice spin. Notice I said “REDUCE” not “ELIMINATE”
Iron face are straight because the increased loft (compared to woods) tends to do the same thing and because golfers are more likely to want to “work” shots
Keep hitting them LONG and STRAIGHT
Amos
Trevor,
You have centripetal force: a force that tends to make rotating bodies move “Toward” the center of rotation as you relate with the skater pulling his arms in to spin, with Centrifugal force; a force that tends to make rotating bodies move away from the center of rotation as is what is needed to hit a ball with an on line impact.
If you swing with centripetal force pulling your arms inward in the downswing, you will likely have an outside to in swing path and hit a lot of shots on the toe. This is because the club will be pulled across the aiming line at impact and the left or lead arm is breaking down and is why you have trouble controlling your left wrist angle. This is in contrast to the left arm being pulled outward and relatively straight keeping it on the aiming line for a square and solid impact..
The Surge!
Chris with the shanks. First carefully look at your club face and the shank. You may see some interesting ball marks. Some “shanks” are caused by the shank impacting the ball near the face and then ricocheting off the face (secondary mark) as it closes. As opposed to the other socket rocket where the shank is the only thing that hits (one mark).
I say this because I had this problem and it took my pro about 30 seconds to cure it. He looked at the face and showed it to me. It was caused by my lack of balance. I was falling towards the ball. Slightly. Staying balanced cured the problem immediately. He also did me another favor. He took the Medicus club away. He asked me to sell it to someone I wanted to beat. It was training me to move forward into the ball with it’s heavy weight pulling me. I also had a flatter swing path at the time, exacerbating the problem.
I think the main cause of the shankopotomus is a path that is too much from the inside. Back to the PPGS.
Thoughts?
TO Jim,
Jim says:
November 28, 2009 at 2:20 pm
I have difficulty getting any distance. It is not because of a lack of strength. I swing hard and usually make good contact. I seem to be “all arms” with very little wrist action. Do you break your wrist during the back swing? I was taught that they should be relatively stiff until the down swing. Help!
Jim
The PPGS states emphatically as you were taught no wrist break in the backswing or for that matter the entire swing. The entire arms from the finger tips to the where the arm connects in the shoulder socket rotates. “Good wrist action is no wrist action.”
To get more distance you need to swing your arms faster. It is the same as throwing a ball or skipping a rock, The farther or faster you want to throw the ball, the faster you swing your arm.
Straight left wrist??? If your not hinging your wrists at the top of the swing you are not creating any power let alone storing any power for the unhinging of the wrists and hands at impact. I suppose if you are physically limited that flat left wrist may work for a 3/4 swing and indeed hit the ball straight but you’ll never achieve maximum power with that shot. I use that shot on knockdown shots but never for full shots. Take it from a power player who hits Driver ( 47″ Krank El Diablo with XXX stiff House of forged whup-N-Shaft) 340-380 yds and competes in long drive contests in Tucson………Power is achieved from a late unhinging of the wrists into the ball at impact. A wide swing arch and wide release is the other secret. Ever notice how Tiger finishes? High and toward the target. Watch his wrists at the top once and you’ll see what I mean. Other wise pick up the magazine called “Golf Power”, its based on the power drivers of the world who hit the ball 400+ yds. Good luck fellow golfers…….Still great golf weather here in Tucson, played today at Ventanna Canyon mountain coarse and shot a 74 from the blacks.
To Amos,
Thanks for your detailed comments on the gravity issue. You are right on.
I especially like your comment to Naaman about pushing off with the rear toe and ball of your foot as you say this helps helps counter the pause you feel in the hands at the top. The original concept of pause at the top of the backswing for the most part meant every thing comes to a pause at the top. In what you described, you have some body part, your toe and rear foot pushing off therefore some body part is always in motion during your swing maintaining continuity of flow.
The pause of your hands at the top is due to the lag caused by the muscles in the arms stretching upward until the forward upswing finally causes their maximum stretch (maintaining firm wrists) at which moment they are falling (gravity) and then pulled down by the transition you initiated with your rear toe pushing off.
The Surge!
A local teaching pro in Clearwater, FL, from whom I took lessons some years ago, helped me tremendously by emphasising what you call the “T-finish” with the hands right up beside the face at the top of the follow-through. He used to make me hold that position as long as possible to teach my body how the swing should end up. Previously I used to think about only the down-swing. When I finally caught on to what he was trying to get me to do, my ball striking improved significantly. Tempo and rythm were much better, too. As far as taking divots are concerned, Tom Watson said in a recent article that he has always been a “scaper”, even in his prime. We all know how well preserved he is at close to 70. No damaged wrists there.
Surge,
I no doubt missed the description of the T finish. Can you give me a line of explanation.
Thanks Surge for a great swing method.Although my game is a work in progress, my golf mates said last week “thats the best you have ever hit the ball”, this is all thanks to your method, and believe this when i have tried many methods with mixed results.
Just a thought for those who cannot work out how to get the programs and videos of your site, they need to read-read-and re-read the posts-especiall Ken and Chucks, or you should not be using a computer ,or as some cannot even follow instructions- maybe you should not even be playing golf.
It is an enjoyable game and it is not that hard!!
If i can work it out ,any one with half a brain can.
In response to Trevor’s conjecture about the ice skating analogy to the golf swing, here are my thoughts. I apologize for the length–I couldn’t shorten it without losing something. Also, I’m sure that authors who have written about the physics of golf would
have far better insights then I do, but I thought I would comment anyway.
As far comparing the golfer’s arms with the arms of an ice skater, the
analogy breaks down in two ways–the golfer is not spinning as does the skater, and if
he/she were to be spinning and then pull in the arms, the trunk would then spin faster and
possibly get out of control. I believe that he is correct in his use of the word “angular.”
A rotating object (like the rock on a string analogy) is modeled in physics by angular velocity,
which has units radians per second. They Greek symbol omega is used to represent this
quantity A lot of the description of a golf swing based on centrifugal force as the property of
the rock that imparts velocity to the golf ball, but it is really tangential velocity due to omega.
Tangential velocity, or tip velocity, is the product of omega and the radius, so in a constant radius system, the velocity of the rock would be omega x radius. Thus less omega but more radius can give the tip velocity as more omega but less radius. So, if you can rotate faster using a light club with shorter shaft, you can get as much tip velocity as with a longer club but slower rotational velocity.
Centrifugal force, as a vector, points outward radially. Centripetal force, which keeps t he rock from flying out of the circular path, points inward. They are equal and opposite but not an action-reaction pair.
With the golf swing, you have several departures from the rock on the string. You have the slight bend that most of us have in the elbow, and you have the break in the wrist of about 90 degrees. Somewhere in the downswing, the elbow straightens, adding a component of velocity to the club head. Of couse, the pros don’t seem to have this bend. Then you have the “release,” and I have yet to read a description of what’s happening during this release other than keeping the wrists flat. Then there is the bump to the left. If there is any movement of the trunk to the left during the downswing, it adds some translational velocity to the tangential velocity, however small.
That’s what I know from physics and kinematics. I know more about that than I do about golf.
My understanding of golf is much more likely to be flawed than my understanding of physics.
hesitated to write about the physics of the swing, particularly since I’m not very proficient at the
swing, but Trevor’s posting seemed to call for a response. Perhaps an experienced golfer who
is an expert in kinematics can respond further.
If I have conceptual errors about the swing, please comment. Maybe that’s why I have such a high handicap.
Charlie
I need to clear up some of the physics stuff about Centrifugal and Centripetal force
Surge, I don’t know if this helps but I’ll try.
you state:
You have centripetal force: a force that tends to make rotating bodies move “Toward” the center of rotation as you relate with the skater pulling his arms in to spin, with Centrifugal force; a force that tends to make rotating bodies move away from the center of rotation as is what is needed to hit a ball with an on line impact.
Centripetal force is the force that provides the push or pull on a moving object toward the center of its curved path. Gravity from the Sun acting on our orbit. Without it, the Earth takes a straight-line off into space. What you describe in a skater pulling in the arms is centripetal acceleration or increasing force, and this causes the skater to accelerate their rotational speed. Our arms in the swing apply centripetal force that keeps the club moving in the circular or approximately circular path. Without it, or in the case of Tommy Tucson, swinging so fast that they loose the grip and hence the force, the club travels in a line tangent to the circular path.
Centrifugal force is a fictitious force and doesn’t exist. it is literally the lack of centripetal force. Stated another way, once an object is in motion it tends to stay in motion (i.e. straight line) unless acted on by a force.
For a better understanding and some cool animation look up:
http://regentsprep.org/Regents/physics/phys06/bcentrif/default.htm
If you swing pulling your arms in, you are screwed regardless of the semantics.
sorry Tommy Tucson: seemed funny that you are in this site. If you can hit the ball 380 yards why are you here? I jest.
ur Chuck C. If we get to the subconscious we’re about 90 per cent successfjul. Since using
PPGS all I think about is the catchers mitt and up and the rest is subconscious. I am hitting
my irons much much better. I wish I could say the same for my driver. But I’m working on it.
Surge, Hope to get at least one more round of golf in this year, we had a light snow last night and temps are running in the mid 40’s during the day. Two things, First I’m still fighting a slice with my woods, the worst one is my driver. Been paying attention to my takeaway and backswing staying out of the SBG but when I swing I still seem to swing inside out. I finish at the top and have tried gripping down on the driver to see if that helped. It actually feels like my hands are too far in front when the club head hits the ball causing an open face and the slice. The clubs i use are the Adams Speedline Draw 10.5 degree driver with the stiff shaft. Even my old driver with the stiff shaft produces the same result. Once I get within 150 yards of the green my game with my irons and wedges has improved greatly with the PPGS swing. Any help with a drill or excercise I can work on in the off season to help with my (1)release timing, (2) Swing path of my woods to help straighten that slice, also what do you think of those swing weight training tools that help build strength along with the proper wrist turn(timing) at impact. Looking for some excercises to build the right muscles and learn(muscle) memory the proper swing path while indoors for the next month or two. Been uising the pilates for golf excercise program to work on better flexability for a better turn to the target at the finish. Seemed to have a handle on my short game as 2 chip in’s from at least 60′ and 5 one putt holes the last round I played helped the score. Now if I can just hit the fairway off the tee my game would improve. Did adjust for the slice and it helped but at times I loose too much distance to get to the long par fours in two resulting in only putts for par instead of birdie opportunities. Thanks again for the great info and the opportunity this PPGS swing has provided me since breaking my neck in April and having C-5-6-7 fused in my neck, have has absolutely no pain after playing 27 holes a week ago and finally walking the Pacific Grove Municipal Golf Course a week ago.
Surge
What is your view on the 1 Iron Golf System.
Being left handed it is sometimes difficult to follow the instructions that are given ie.left arm /right arm etc.. Why don’t all instructions just say back arm or front arm etc.
Sorry, can’t help but comment on a few of these. First, some of you really need to edit what you type before posting. Course is not spelled coarse, and peer pressure may not be the same as pier pressure. It makes it just a big less confusing to read if it actually has some correct grammar in it.
I was seeing a guy in ATL for a while that was really pushing cocking of the wrist early on while taking the club back. While the long drive theory makes since, most of those guys go a long way past parallel, which in turn leads to swinging the arms much faster as well. Also, as most would understand, a much longer driver helps with lag and clubhead speed as well.
Some of you need to stop arguing about physics and just study some of the tour guys swings. My game has certainly gotten more solid after working on the flat left wrist, returning my hands to impact just the way they left at address. See Steve Stricker for illustration!!
I used to work with weights quite a bit, and my strength went up while distance increased. Exercising the correct golf muscles will probably help those lacking distance. But, in the end, hitting the ball squarely always seems to help me the most! Thanks for the emails big S, and GO TIGERS!
I have now read all 10 lessons and correct me if i’m wrong but Natural Golf swing which the late Moe Norman used seems to have many of the same concepts. The one big difference seems to be the wide stance used in Natural Golf. Anyways the winter will give my shoulder and back a chance to heal and then we’ll try a couple of buckets in the spring. Happy Holidays all.
Don,
Any advice on relaxing the arms/wrists to start the backswing? I now feel like my problem is I tense my arms as I start my backswing and I come down hard before (right) of the ball. (Rt. handed)
I set up checking my alignment, keeping my shoulders and hips in line. My knees are flexed. I am keeping the lower body still and my head focused on the ball as my shoulders/arms swing the club back to the11-12 position, limiting my left shoulder turn to about my left foot.
In order to strike the ball well I have to try not to swing hard but that goes against the brains desire/nature of hitting it hard to get distance.
Will the result of a reverse pivot be a cut shot, slice and or a pull? What ever I am doing wrong, I cannot hit a draw to save my life……
Thanks for fighting the ongoing battle.
Randy
Hello Don
I read your comments every day and I am a 10 handy-cap. I have made the changes to the PP swing and it is working fine.
However, I need to know if “supination” of the wrists at impact is a good thing or not. I have practiced this Ben Hogan move and it is working great for me. Is this an action that you would teach in relation to your golf swing? It really helps me with the ON,ON,ON part of the pp swing.
Ron
Hi Don
In response to takeaway into catchers mitt,Iam a lefty with a rolling right arm out and around takeaway which I can not get rid of.when I picture your catchers mitt takeaway in my mind if Iam not on the target line going back ,or a little bit outside that then straight up the tree ,Iam doing exactly what Iam trying to correct.Also in my mind going straight up seems very steep to me also coming down the tree seems very steep which more often than not the swing will be from the outside in or a ( pardon the term shank) will happen.Sometimes I wish all you teaching pro,s would get together and standardize on one basic golf swing ,but I guess this all makes for good print.
Thanks
Wayne
Randy Erickson,
No problem, I like to read comments on struggling golfers and give my input from time to time.
I admire the Surge’s teaching techniques and raw style. And yes, being 6′ 6″ tall and weighing 210 lbs with a strong, and very flexible body has advantages to hitting the ball a long way.
A Driver made specifically for distance does not hurt either. I do have young kids that are learning the game and Surges methods work in my teachings to them. Let’s face it, I could never teach them my swing at such an early age. Surge teaches good solid fundementals that work for their swings. Keep up the great work Don!
All I know is whenever I have focused on hitting down, bad things have happened, period. It is that simple. When I swing through the ball accelerating to the target, good things happen. That does it for me.
Dave
I got your Discs yesterday. My english is not perfect and I have problems to understand your
imposant, passioned and well built up teaching. There are such a lot of special phrases, words
and terms, it is frustrating to see you full of energy, elan and passion and understand only a quarter.
What do You think about well translated lessons? Otherwise it is harder to understand your teaching as understand to play your demonstrated golf based on science and anatomy.
I wanted to loose my frustrations when golfing. Now I Have a lot of more frustration:
I have problems to hear well, to understand well, to translate well: Frustration on the TOP!
Be filled up with dignity for us strangers. Give us translaters to Chrismas-Day!
Dr.Hellmuth Berbig 76344 Eggenstein-Leopoldshafen Germany
So Surge,
what is right answer on diviots. I mostly take a very shallow diviot or swich the grass.
however i feel hit ball thin a lot. My distance with a 7 iron is 150 I would like to be 160-165
and getting pro diovt I believe can help me achieve this. Am I right or is there some other
way i can increase my distance
ThANKS
To hinge or not to hinge the wrist…
To the comment that keeping the left wrist flat (for right handers) inhibits distance, and that Tiger Woods hinges his wrists…
With all due respect, that is simply not true!
Tiger Woods and all great golfers, whether they are using Don’s PPGS method or taking a full shoulder turn and swinging the club behind them, all have a flat left wrist throughout their swing… If you don’t believe it, look at any pro or good amateur golfer from directly behind when they hit a shot… you’ll see their left wrist stays perfectly flat throughout the swing… You can really see this as the club slows down near the apex of the backswing…
Further, unless their grip is extremely strong or very weak, the back of the flat left wrist/hand is perfectly parallel to the clubface…
However, with every swing method, the left wrist does “cock” at the top, but it does not “hinge”. There is a huge difference between the definition of”cocking” and “hinging”.
The left wrist “cock” occurs at the top of the swing during the transition, in ANY good golf swing. The “bump”, that initiates the weight shift to the left side should occur a fraction of a second before the club reaches the top of the swing…
This, I believe, is what generates maximum power… The lower body shifts the weight to the left, while the upper body, shoulders, arms, hands, and club is still going back.
As long as you do what Don suggests, and “visualize” the swing by putting the club into the catcher’s mitt, bringing it up the tree, bumping your weight to the left to initiate the downswing sequence, and then up to a “T” finish facing the target… you’ll discover that it’s a natural motion that is inherent to all of us… as long as you don’t try to “overthink” it… just let your body do what it naturally knows how to do, and don’t let your brain get in the way!
The best analogy I can think of is “cracking a whip”. Everybody knows how to do it. You load up the whip by bringing your arm back, and just before the whip straightens out behind you, you bring your arm forward, and the whip will make a loud, “snap”… The whip is still going back, when you bring it forward… thus the end of the whip achieves maximum velocity…
Even if you’ve never had a whip in your hands, after a few attempts, you’d naturally find the “sweet spot” that would produce the loudest “snap”.
If you were right-handed and you put both of your hands on the whip handle and brought the whip over your right shoulder… as you bring your hands over your shoulder to “sling” the whip behind you, your left wrist would be flat, and your right wrist would be slightly hinged.
As your arms go back, your left wrist would remain flat, and your right hand would gradually hinge as if you were about to toss a ball.
While the whip is still uncurling behind you, just before it straightens out, you would bring your arms forward, your left wrist, still flat, would slightly cock (because of the weight of the whip pulling it back), your right hand would have a pronounced hinge, and as you bring your arms forward, the “loop” of the whip is still going back… and the juxaposed directional change creates maximum velocity on the end of the whip, creating the “snap”, that sounds so cool.
You wouldn’t have to think about it. It’s a natural one-piece motion…
I use both hands when I cast a fishing lure… and I use the exact same hand action, without thinking about it…
Try casting a fishing lure by first bringing the rod back with both hands, then stopping for a count, then bringing your hands forward… Then try casting with both hands by bringing the rod back, then forward, all in one motion… and see which method gives you more accuracy and distance…
Whether you’re “cracking a whip”, casting a lure, or swinging a golf club, it’s essentially the same motion… going back, your “leading” hand’s wrist is flat and cocks, your “trailing” hand’s wrist hinges, the forward motion must be initiated while the “swing” is still going back in order to reach maximum accuracy and power in the forward or downswing…
For the golf swing, to take it a bit further, as your clubhead accelerates through the ball, and you move up into Don’s “T” finish… your hands/wrist will mirror their backswing positions… (for righties), your left wrist hinges and your right wrist flattens as it cocks the club over your left shoulder…
Don, I might be wrong, and may be confusing people. But I’m a simple guy, and these analogies have really helped me to visualize your swing method… and it’s really helping me to play the best golf of my life.
But to your student that stating that Tiger Woods is hinging his left wrist, I do know that’s not correct. Tiger doesn’t “hinge” his left wrist, he “cocks” it… The back of Tiger’s wrist is perfectly flat and is parallel to the face of his club… just like you say it needs to be…
To Tommy Tucson:
Tommy, I enjoyed your comments concerning Tiger Woods swing. However, I think you should do a search on, “Tiger Woods swing analysis” and look at the many videos of his golf swing.
If you look carefully at a few of Tiger’s thousands of swing videos, you’ll immediately see that Tiger does not hinge his left wrist at all. Once Tiger starts his swing, the back of his left wrist is perfectly flat throughout the swing. If Tiger “hinged” his left wrist as you stated in your comment, it would be physically impossible for the back of his left wrist to remain flat. It would either be cupped or pronated at the top of the swing, which would open or close the clubface, respectively.
At the top of Tiger’s backswing, the left wrist is cocked and back of his wrist/hand is perfectly flat and parallel to the club face. Tiger’s right wrist is hinged, just as if he had a rock in his hand that he was going to skip across a pond.
You sound like a gifted golfer with extraordinary talent. If you can drive a golf ball 380 yards, I’ll bet your left wrist, like Tiger’s remains perfectly flat in your backswing. You’re not hinging your left wrist, but cocking it in order to deliver maximum clubhead velocity into the back of the ball.
The golf pro at my club here in Charlotte have argued this point. He’s right-handed and does hinge his left wrist at the top of his swing… deliberately cups his wrist at the top… and teaches that method. He can hit the ball a long way, as long as his timing is perfect. The problem with hinging, (cupping) the left wrist at the top is that there’s a large range of motion there… if you don’t believe it, grip a club in your left hand, hold it straight out, flatten your wrist, and then move it toward the left and back to flat a few times (cup and uncup your wrist)… Look how much an inch or two of wrist hinge moves the clubhead… More important, look at how the angle of the clubface changes in relation to the wrist position!
Now if a right-handed golfer is hinging his left wrist at the top of the backswing, imagine how difficult it would be to hinge the wrist the same amount every swing. Imagine how hard this would make it to consistently deliver the clubface squarely into the back of the ball.
Now grip a club out straight with your left hand again, keep the wrist flat, and with your hand, move the club up and down (cocking the wrist). First of all, the range of motion is much smaller than hinging your wrist… but most importantly, look how the angle of the clubface changes as you cock and uncock your left wrist… Exactly, it doesn’t change at all !!
The back of your left hand remains parallel to the face of the club… So, just by not hinging your left wrist, keeping it flat throughout the swing, you’ve completely eliminated a major source of errant shots…
To Raymond Head,
Well said, Raymond. Incidentally, the whip ‘crack’ sound is caused by the whip tip breaking the sound barrier.
Cheers.
Hi, and thank you for your golf tips they really do help. My question is i am a lefthander and now my ball is starting to leak to the left, any help. Thank you for all your help and next time your son plays at disney and you are with him, i would like to thank you in person for the help with my game.
Hitting down on the ball? I believe that divots come for only one reason. The club bottoms out directly under your hands. If your hands are in front of the ball at impact with mid to short irons the club is going down. You never need to try and hit down on the ball but if your hands are in good position you will take a divot or burn the ground. If you ground a wedge you will see that the shaft is a couple inches in front of the blade. A five iron your hands would be over the blade and with a Driver your hands would be over the leading edge of the head. ( No divot with a driver). I don’t take huge divots. One reason is if your playing on firm tracks it leads to tendonidis. One good thing about divots is they tell you something about your angle into the ball etc. I agree with Surge that no divot or very small ones are best for most players.