Friday, July 30, 2010

Great Grip…Thumb Positions and Pressure

- Audio version at the end of this post -

DM was here in the US straight over from Australia on business. Being a student of the PPGS, he booked a day’s lesson with me. DM is a scratch player and he was hitting the ball fairly well but there was too much inconsistency in his ball contact and his flight.  After getting his playing history and finding out what his future goals were and what he was willing to do to attain them, it was time to check out his setup and swing.

While doing my written evaluation I graded his overall setup and swing as pretty good.  But the key for getting it from pretty good to real good meant getting down to tightening his setup issues before I could work on his swing as my number 1 mantra is, “The setup determines the motion.”

His grip needed attention.  At first glance it looked OK but not good enough.  His left or top hand (DM is right handed) looked a little weak despite being cupped a little.  Then looking at his right, lower hand, it looked OK but was a little strong.  This means his hands were on the club opposite each other with one weak and the other favoring strong.  The dead give away was when, in his address position, I saw his hands wiggling back and forth which caused the clubface to wiggle back and forth, which was going open to shut.  When he started his takeaway, one time the club started away shut and the next time it went away correctly, toe up leading.   His wiggle at address was like he couldn’t get the clubface square to his aiming line relative to his setup feeling right or correct.  That, in fact, was the issue.  He couldn’t get into a dynamically balanced setup of his arms and grip because the grip was not correct.

I started with his right/lower hand and had him grip the club. Then I had him just open his fingers so I could see where the grip was seated in his fingers.  Just as I knew it had to be with his strong looking right hand grip, the club was too close and into the base of the fingers.  The bottom of the grip, we’ll call 6:00 o’clock, was touching the last joint of the fingers where they attach to the palm.  For a correct grip the club must be seated in the middle joint which will set the hand on the club palms perpendicular to the ground.  I showed him how to crimp his fingers at the middle joint. That is where the club is gripped in your fingers so that 6:00 o’clock is now seated in the middle finger joint.

His left or upper hand also needed some adjustment.  When he opened his fingers the club was seated very close to on top of the base of his palm and too close to his lifeline.  He also had his left thumb directly on top of the grip at 12:00 0’clock and it was touching his index finger.  The grip fix for his left hand was getting the grip seated on the middle and top joint that connects the finger to the palm.  Then I got his pad of the left hand closer to on top of the grip at 12, which removed the grip from the lifeline and into the last finger joint.   Lastly, I got his thumb moved over from 12:00 o’clock to 1:00 o’clock and pointed out that this caused a gap between the thumb and index finer.  I stated a gap was good.  Touching or tight is not right.

The biggest issue of the left thumb being over at 1:00 o’clock on the grip is that the thumb was now directly in line up the forearm.  Conversely, the right or lower hand thumb being over and touching the grip at 11:00 0’clock was in line with the forearm.  In 1985, the first time I met Dr. Armstrong, my physiology mentor, we talked setup and swing. He pointed out to me that the fingers, hands and arms are only in dynamic balance when the thumps point up or align up the forearm.  Thus, the thumb of each hand has to be on the outer side of the grip to be aligned up the forearm.
thumb left hand

The best way to see this is to extend your hands out like shaking hands or let them hang by your side and look at your thumbs.  Your thumbs are extended or hanging straight down from and in line with your forearm.  Next, to see and feel balance and the way the thumb works relative to your forearm, try to pick something up or, with your left hand, hold a pen and give it to your right hand.  Notice the index finger and thumb come together to grab the pen.  Notice the thumb always stays aligned directly down from the forearm.  This is a dynamically balanced hand to forearm.  That is why, for the grip to be dynamically balanced in the setup and then for the entire swing, we keep the top wrist firm and relatively straight, so both thumbs are in line up the forearms.

This will still create the V that most everyone talks about having to point at the back shoulder for a square, or as I call it, a palms perpendicular to the ground grip.  The thumbs in line up the forearms do help and are in fact basically a deterrent and more of a guarantee so neither hand gets too strong or weak.  The thumbs in line up the forearms is a dynamically balanced grip.
left hand

The last points I stressed about grip were all relative to pressure.  I believe grip pressure has to be relatively firm.  Together with firm, I believe they must both be the same firmness which I relate to being that of a firm, confident handshake.  On a scale of 1 weak to 5 tight, they both are a 3, right in the middle.  The fingers, in setting the pressure, must be squeezed upward, again just like you shake hands.  There is no pressing down the lower hand and thumb onto the upper hand and thumb.  We squeeze the fingers upward.
right hand

The last and vitally important point about the same pressure in both hands is that once the swing starts and all the way to the finish, both hands must swing and move at the same speed.  Just as the front tires on a car must go the same speed, or turn in a circle towards the slower wheel, so must both hands swing at the same speed and same effort throughout the swing.

DM’s grip was not real bad, but it wasn’t real good, especially for a scratch player.  I spent a good 20 minutes showing and explaining the finer points of the grip and the reasons to why it is the way it is.  I then had DM grip, let go and grip again and again until he was doing it correctly, smoothly and consistently.  Then it was practicing swinging to feel the effect of the changes and then the ultimate test of hitting some golf balls.

His back and forth waggle at address was gone and his takeaway was more consistently toe up into the mitt and his backswing from the mitt easily more vertical.

A good grip, with the muscles properly activated, can then rotate and lift correctly to make a correct swing.  A great grip is a many splendid thing and sets the stage for a splendid swing.

(Note to Inner Circle Members: Be sure to visit the Member Forums for the new Golf School, March 10-12, At Port St. Lucie, FL. Click here to see what our students said about the last one. And I’d say you have about 5 days left to get a custom made driver, exactly like the one I use.)

The Surge!

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  • Ed Bond
    I am anxious to receive regular notes of all aspects of the game.
    Whilst I am a mature person now, as a younger man I did play off a 9 handicap, with a grooved swing. Now I feel that my swing has left me, and I am not sure how my shots will go, with any club. I guess my driver is more consistent than the other clubs.

    Regards
    Ed
  • Santosh
    Grip, grip, grip. I can't take it any more. My right hand is killing me right now after two days at the range. Surge, I was wondering if you ever heard of the Feel X-Line grips and how they have a reverse taper with the thinner portion on the bottom and getting thicker as it goes up? Could this really work? How about the Jumbo Max grips? Their websites seems to make sense and at this point, i don't want to cause any more damage to my hands.
  • Dick S.
    What is the best way to determine proper grip size?
  • Tony Clark
    For all those people who have moaned about there being a lack of visual help remember that it would be hardly worthwhile for Surge if all the info was provided prior to you buying the video series. Wake up, half you wouldn't buy them. By the way great weather down here in New Zealand where we play year round dry course golf with just a bit of frost.
  • Rick Palmer
    Love this one Surge. I really thought I was doing really good at this till I went thru each step of this. I think I had DM's old grip. It felt different and firmer than my grip has been and made my right arm feel a little more in correct alignment without me having to think of it and made my swing toe up to mitt and up the tree like I can't remember.

    Now it this weather would ever cooperate so I can do it in a full swing. The wife has a problem with me swinging full in the house (low ceilings). ;) great job.
  • Clark Kent
    Don,

    The older golfers need reminding more than you realize, me included. When I first got your program I saw the grip, but during the winter months with no club in hand, I did forget how I was going to change my grip to the correct way (especially for the right hand. Thanks for reshowing us old codgers again. Like they say, if you don't use it you lose it.

    Clark
  • DM
    Being the person involved in this lesson it was amazing to "FEEL" how important good dynamic position is. Its the simple things like balance and grip that so easily affect arm position at the top and therefore finish. Most top level teachers preach this but very rarely follow it through with students in detail like Don. My suggestion is if your grip and balance are not perfect, forget anything else until they are!
  • Bob B
    Surge:

    I would appreciated you clarifying an apparent inconsistency in two of your grip descriptions regarding the location of the right hand fingers on the clubshaft.

    In this post you state that " For a correct grip the club must be seated in the middle joint which will set the hand on the club palms perpendicular to the ground. I showed him how to crimp his fingers at the middle joint. That is where the club is gripped in your fingers so that 6:00 o’clock is now seated in the middle finger joint" To me this is a very clear descrption of the right hand finger location.

    However, on page 29 of the Manual you state that "the right(hand), for the sake of feel, should hold the club between the first and second joints (Figure 8).This placement puts the right hand in a more passive, no-power position." You don't mention the 6:00 o'clock postion in the manual, but I interprete this description to mean the 6:00 o'clock position should be between the first and second joints. I know there is not much difference in the locations of the club in the fingers, but they do feel different. I find it easier and more comfortable with the "in the joint" location. The "between" the joints location make the right hand grip feel very weak vs. neutral.

    Would you please clear this up?
  • SteveS
    Let's not forget the other type of grip, the baseball grip - Oh the horror!! For those who suffer from arthritis or just a weak (in strength-not postion on the handle) grip, the baseball grip provides more stability and confidence in controlling the handle. I have found that when I used the other grips, the handle moved in my hands while the swing was in motion-yielding some very inconsistent ball striking. I also use a non-tapered grip on my clubs which gives me the same sized grip in each hand; since my hands are the same size, why shouldn't the grip be the same size. You can still accomplish the thumb position as Don mentions above with this grip as well, and since the release comes from the forearm rotation, this is not affected either. It also helps keep the left wrist straight.
  • Chuck
    I am thoroughly confused. As a visual learner it would be helpful to have pictures/drawings of what you are describing.
  • Rex Carpenter
    Am I missing something or what? Are therel any responses made to any of these comments? If so, where do I find them?
  • Buck
    I love the lessons Surge. I agree with Noel though that pictures would be so helpful.

    Regards,
  • Bill McKinney
    Someone referred to grip pictures being in the"Foundation Manual." I do not have a "Foundation Manual." How do I get one?

    Thanks
  • Richard White
    Don,

    Please publich pictures so we can visually line up your written comments with how "it" should look. Thanks.

    Richard

    P.S. Also,l are there any instructors in the the Naples/Bonita Bay area who teach your method?
  • Scott Campbell
    dear Don,
    I am a legally blind golfer who can see some things but not all things my vision is limited. I have to olay with a sighted golfer or my wifr who does not play golf. I was wondering if there were any tips you could give me to help my game improve?
  • Tony Tobin
    Best description opf the grip I have ever read.
  • anne
    The foundations manual is a fantastic resource- available in the products menu when you get the videos
    Hitting much more solid shots- thanks!
  • Pascual Babes Pastor
    Don
    I really do not understand how the position of the grip in relation to join of fingers to palm has any impact in the correct swing. BUT IT DOES. I am an Engineer with complete knowledge of science, physics and higher math but I tip my hat to you. Your description of the correct grip is very clear to me without need of picture In fact there are elements which I think is impossible to put in pictures. I have a driving fish net at my backyard and immediately tried the grip and it cured my fat and thin shots. It also made the vertical easier to attain. I just found out why I keep on falling back on my right foot after my follow through. My left foot is angled too much towards the target which does not allow the rolling and transfer of the weight to the outstep. I hope you will continue giving tips and help us improve our game. THANKS SURGE
    Pascual
  • Roy Reed
    For Rod: You have the correct grip. If you are using the interlocking grip, at a ball-center-of-stance position,the left thumb should be covered and lay naturally under the lifeline of the right hand palm/thumb-pad. The "V"- line formed by your two hands should point toward the right shoulder. With this grip set-up, you will notice that each thumb still points directly up their respective fore-arms (and thus the "V" is formed).. As you practice your full swings, adjust each hand pressure until your shots are consistant and straight.

    For Tom: Three is in the middle - there are two numbers on each side if it. Three is the average pressure we need to grip our clubs with. We can go stronger (4,5) or weaker (1,2) as we are trying to establish the grip pressure that works best for each of us. I've found that I need a little more pressure on my right had grip to keep my Tee shots consistant, and about the same pressure on both hands when hitting my irons. Hit em straight! R2
  • Will Lewis
    Hi
    Would it be possible to have some diagrams showing the position of the club in the hands.
    Example palms up with lines drawn on the hands.
    Kind Regards
    Will Lewis
  • steve
    i need a picture of this grip and or drawing. i cant see what your saying?
  • tom
    if 1is weak and 5 is tight how can 3 be in the middle DOH!
  • The Surge!
    To William Ward,

    Regarding my position on Grip pressure, it has always been the same of 3 on a scale of 1 - 5 and equal with both hands in pressure and speed throughout the swing.

    If you feel that your right hand being firmer has helped your swing and shot control as compared to both being equal, then stay with it. Better results in ball contact and shot control prove that is better for you, so stay with it.

    The point I will add here is you say you grip firmer with the right hand. You are gripping it firmer, not weaker. softer or more loosely as most instruction teaches. Your firmness in your right hand is the cause of your more control and if it is a little more firm then the left, I promise you, that is way better than too loose as your improved ball striking attests to. So be firm and hit it with the right hand.

    The Surge!
  • Rod
    Surge, I just tried your grip and found that the thumb of the left hand (I'm right handed) is fully enclosed by the right hand, putting the left thumb between the right palm and the grip. When doing a full swing won't this put a lot of pressure on the left thumb? Or, is my palm not supposed to grip as hard?
  • The Surge!
    To Jerry Foley,

    I like the Same Snead if it was him concept of picking the club off the ground with each hand. It sounded good, and reasonable. Since I always keep a club in my home office in case I need to test things when I am writing articles or answering questions, I dropped it on the floor. And like Sam said, I picked it up with each hand just about exactly as I grip it.

    BUT, then I felt that because it was just natural as my hands with a grip always grip it the same. So, I did a test and dropped a pen on the floor and I picked it up between my thumb and index finger just as I did picking it off my desk. The I picked my cell phone off the floor and my right thumb touched the left side of it and the rest of my fingers scooped under the right side pulling it into my palm. Lastly, I capped my plastic bottle of Diet Lime Green Tea and placed on te floor an dpicked it up much he same was as my cell phone scooping it up into my palm.

    I think we pick things up much as we handle them so, he club thing works as does all the other articles I picked up. But now as to the picking up the club, I cannot say for sure that if one had a bad grip with either or both that they would pick the club up with a good grip. I guess I need to test that if I can remember to do it the next time I have a student with a bald grip that needs fixing.

    The Surge!
  • The Surge!
    Walt,

    Interlock or overlap is personal. Players with short fingers usually are better off with theinterlock.

    Regarding your comment about interlock resisting hand action, if you have a tendency to over release and hit hooks and interlocking helps correct that , then by all means interlock.

    The Surge!
  • Marv Wagner
    I've been reading comments for some time now, and appreciate all of the good tips. I've always read and been told to have your hands parallel, which I think you can do and still not have a good grip. This is the best explanation of the grip I have ever read. I also have seen a tip that is backed up by pictures in Ben Hogan's book of putting a tee in each thumb crease and that these tees should line up with the shaft of the club. I have tried this over the winter at a hitting booth at a local store and found my shots to be strait - no slice or fade on the launch monitor. I can't wait for the snow to clear so I can get some rounds in to really test it. I also want to implement the finger/club position that Don has written about. Thank you Don for some very good information.
  • The Surge!
    To David Dean,

    Your question made me go back and read the article. At first I thought I never mentioned which hands grips the club first. My choice of words gives the impression I had him grip the right hand first. He in fact was setup to hit and I stopped him and started my evaluation of his grip with the right hand but his left was on the club as he was ready to swing.

    I will add, that I hand the club with my right hand to my left in front of me at about waist high and then my right hand slides up into the grip. I will add that many times if I am working with a player that has a strong left hand grip, I will have him or her grip the club with the left arm and hand hanging down by their side. It is very difficult to grip it strong this way. And if they did they will feel the wrist curled down and feel the palm facing down to the ground instead of palm perpendicular to the ground.

    The Surge!
  • The Surge!
    To Dave Nelson,

    The bottom of the swing is not behind the ball. When the club especially with an iron, taking a shallow divot, strikes the ball, the leading edge of the club enters the ground some where directly under the center of the ball to slightly past it depending on how steep and deep one is swinging.

    Even trying to brush the ball off the grass the bottom of the swing is under the ball.

    The Surge!
  • David L. Dean
    +Dear Don, The grip you are talking about in this lesson requires you to put your righit hand on tihe club first. The third lesson in your 10 video lessons teaches you to put your left hand on the club first. Which is it?
  • The Surge!
    Tim Wallace,

    The lower hand thumb is always on the side of the shaft facing the target. Looking down at the cap on your grip as a clock, If you are a lefty, and your lower hand is your left hand, the thumb should be on the target side and by the clock it would be 1:00 o'clock and just the opposite of a right handed player whose lower/right hand thumb would be at 11:00 o'clock.

    The Surge!
  • Jim
    Surge,

    Thanks for the clarification. I know grip pressure or how much seems to be a grey area. I've heard hold the club like a tube of toothpaste from some articles and that just caused me to lose it at the top. Evident by a worn glove. I'm 50 and old habits die hard Surge. I am still working on the limited turn light at the top but your explanation uncovered another inconsistency. ( Just what I need) I am good with the high hand ( I'm a rightie ) but my bottom hand has been way too light on the club. Almost like just going a long for the ride which all too often results in a push because of a weak release. Dying for warmer weather to get out and put this to use. It's been a winter in the northeast and the closest thing I have come to taking out is my wife's ceiling fan and a lamp shade with my 7 iron.
  • Clayton "Randy" Nelson
    Don Trahan or William Ward;

    My grip is quite a bit different than everyone, since my left side is paralyzed due to car wreck in 1980!

    Number one, I can't put my thumb straight down the handle and #2, once I hit the ball, my left hand is no longer on the club! Because of all this, my right hand holds the grip stronger and even laps over the left hand and goes along for the ride! (the left hand and shoulder still goes throuugh the motion like it's supposed to, however, the right hand and arm handles the power and hangs onto the club!) My drives are still 250 to 300 yards, depending on how solidly it hit's the ball!

    My main trouble is irons off the fairway! I usually hit hybrids or fairway woods! (If I have more than 150 yards (that's my 5 iron, farther than that I'll go with a hybrid or fairway wood!)

    Thank You,


    Clayton R. Nelson

    P.S.: it takes me a half hour to 45 minutes to put my left hand glove on, because the fingers are all curled up and won't go in the finger holes! I wear a right hand glove also, for better grip!
  • Jerry Foley
    Years ago I read a tip on how to learn the proper grip. I believe it came from Sam Snead but not positive. The tip is to lay an iron face down and simply pick it up with your right hand and then flip the iron over face up and pick it up with your left hand. In each case it is the correct grip for that hand.

    When I was young my older brother forced me to grip correctly saying I would eventually get "used to it" and became it true. Force yourself to use the proper grip and in short order you will get used to it and you will be better for it. You may never swing as good as a pro but you can have as good a grip. Look at videos and see most every tour player with similar grips. Now why do you suppose? Reread what Don has said.
  • William Ward
    Don, I'm a little confused about grip pressure. In your article on 12/24/09 you said that on the downswing the right hand must be firm enough to take over. I then started gripping the club a little more firmly with the right hand than I do with the left. This seems to work best for me and eliminated the push-fade I was was getting on too many iron shots. I was happy until reading your article today in which you state that right and left hand grip pressure should be equal. Maybe in my own game I've just corrected an error with another error, but I don't understand how one hand can dominate without firmer pressure than the other hand.
  • I have read and pondered many, many explanations of the grip, and yours is the first one that effectively communicated how the club grip aligned with the palm and fingers. Once I read it, I went to the course, cleared snow from the driving range pad, put down an old pad I use at home, and hit a few balls. Big difference in ease of swing and distance. Thanks again for a great lesson.

    By the way, I read an interview of Lee Trevino once in which he said he had special gloves made with a pad in the palm to help his grip. Do you have any opinions about this?

    Also, the question comes to mind, why wear a glove only on one hand, why not both, or why wear any?

    Thanks for your insights.
    Ed Kalbaugh
  • Ian Farrell
    Don, a picture is worth a thousand words, my brain was in overdrive trying to picture what you were describing.
  • Doug Banks
    Surge...., Joe, on February 22, 2010, asked a question about distance. I am interested in your answer. Somehow, those of us that are "seasoned" enough to (maybe) understand the game, and young enough (like Joe) to still be strong, would like to know what time "blurring" concepts...excercise, or whatever, will allow us to regain/retain, the distance we once had. I can still hit it long, but,less consistently, and I lose accuracy...

    I like to play with the Kids....

    Doug
  • David Pittman
    First let me say I really enjoy and look forward to receiving your e-mail,however it would be very helpful to have some illustration on a subject like this. It is confusing.
    Thanks
  • JohnOB
    I also like to see pictures of any elements of the golf swing, although I also find that well explained written details of those elements (like Dons grip explanations above) can be as benificial, or even more so than pictures.
    PS> All the grip positions (pictures) that Don talks about above, can be found on pages 25-32 of the Foundation Manual, plus several pictures of other elements of the PPGS on many other pages.
    Stay Vertical, including the palms.
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