Friday, March 19, 2010

Long Irons & Woods: Does the Club Know?

Note from The Surge: We’re down at the PGA Merchandise Show in Orlando, FL. I’ll be having a report soon on the treds we’ve seen. Pretty amazing stuff. This is the biggest golf show on earth. Something like a million square feet of nothing but golf. Of course, I run intro old friends, many of them teaching pros. One of them, Doug, came up to me and said, “Surge! What’s this about the right arm? Are you serious?” So, Dougie, this one’s for you, because you were probably asleep when I ent over this (just kidding).

The right arm is the “good guy.” Students (and teachers) often come to me because they have problems with the longer irons and woods. The primary reason they have difficulty is because the longer clubs are flatter.

What happens is the longer clubs, being flatter because of their length, are thus swung on a slightly flatter plane, even though we are swinging them basically as vertical as the shorter ones. The key here is that in both the backswing lift and the forward upswing lift, the law of centrifugal force wants to keep the club on the same path through impact on through to the finish, which is lower, flatter and more tilted, due to shaft length.

Plus, add gravity in the forward swing fighting your wanting the club to go up also adds to the dilemma of lifting the club up vertically. Thus, in the forward swing, like in the backswing, once the club is into the mitt (parallel to the ground) the main player becomes the right hand.

The right hand, the hand that everyone has been told is a “Bad Guy” because it is blamed for every handsy evil in the backswing, especially in the forward swing, is held lightly and has been trained to be passive so it won’t over release.

The key to swinging vertical is that the right hand has to take over, and take over BT (Big Time) to lift the club to the vertical T-Finish over the left shoulder.

Once you are approaching impact, the right hand and forearm have to be activating, so once the club reaches the mitt (parallel to the ground) the hand and forearm can stop the arms and club from rotating past palms perpendicular to the ground and club toe up, and make the club go straight up to 12:00 o’clock.

This can only happen with a strong, activated, committed and forceful right hand forcing the issue of changing the direction of the shaft off the diagonal plane into the more upright and vertical plane, both in the backswing lift and especially in the forward up swing lift.

The forward up swing change of direction and lift has to be even more forceful because of the simple fact that the upswing speed of the club is way faster than in the backswing. So, more speed needs more energy and effort to change the direction, especially up, which is going against gravity. Here, gravity is the enemy, remember? An image I use to show and somewhat feel this to imagine is that after impact, as you reach the mitt, you have the tree behind the mitt. The key is to feel that shaft, just above the clubhead, bounces off the tree trunk.This ricochets the club and arms straight up.

In other words, the tree stops the club on its diagonal path to the left, which is flat, deep and wide of the shoulders, and bounces it straight up over the left shoulder to the T -Finish.  The right hand is still active because once the club direction is changed, we have to make sure it goes straight up and not bounce diagonally the other way.

What we are doing is swinging with active and powerful hands and arms, especially the right hand. I have (of course) a “Surgism” about swinging the club you’ve read before: “I must swing the club, the club does not swing me.”

When I swing a club, the club only does what I want it to do. (Good and bad.) And when it is in motion, especially in the forward up swing, you must have actively engaged arms, and forearms (especially the right) to change the plane from diagonal to more vertical. The longer the club, the more energy and emphasis needs to be applied in this vertical bounce off the tree. So forget about the passive right hand. Energize it to do the job it has to do of forcing the club up in the vertical plane where it has to go to hit the ball solid, straight and longer.

The Surge!

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Comments

146 Responses to “Long Irons & Woods: Does the Club Know?”
  1. Ben Shatley says:

    Ok, here you go. My comments are history.

  2. Roy says:

    Ben, how many times must you excite the crowd by saying you are leaving?

    Don’t leave mad…just leave for crying sake!

  3. Ben Shatley says:

    Roy, how can I stop posting, if you keep goading me and pushing my buttons? Have you ever heard of Rick Masingale? …He and his brother played the PGA Tour for years and years. Once I was playing in a 4-spot in Greensboro, and was paired with Rick. We were on the range warming up, and his caddie, a local Greensboro guy, was making fun of my 845’s. At that time, the 845’s were old and outdated. He was making all sorts of smart-aleck comments about me and about my clubs and my old bag, and so on. Well, by the time we reached the back 9, I was beating Mr. Masingale, and he and his caddie both walked off the course. The next week, I saw Rick on TV Suday afternoon in the Houston Open, doing well. You, Roy, may think I am just a joke and a loser. But you enjoy being proud of your little 8 handicap there buddy. Niether you, nor anyone else here, will get any help from me.

  4. Ben Shatley says:

    Oh yeah, Roy. I forgot to mention. Rick Masingale’s caddie had nothing to say after my opening drive ripped out there about 300 straight down the middle. In fact, he could not look me in the eye thereafter.

  5. Ben Shatley says:

    Something else ironic, Roy … Tommy Armour 845’s are now, some 15 years later, recognized by many as one of the best set of irons ever made. …guess I was just ahead of my time, you recon?

  6. Ben Shatley says:

    You can choose, Roy, whether or not you want to be the gentleman with skills like Mr. Masingale, or whether or not you want to be the smart-aleck hacker like his caddie. It is up to you. But the taunts from you and others have zero effect on me. I said that I would respond to comments about me or to me, and that is what I will do. I have all the time in the world buddy.

  7. Ben Shatley says:

    …and I hit that 300 yard drive with an old Taylormade burner, small-headed, 17-4 stainless driver, with a 43-inch Dynamic Gold S300 shaft. ….and an easy little VERTICAL SWING …ahem

  8. Ben Shatley says:

    I said I would make 20 posts, but I will let you off the hook with only 6 this time. Please do not goad me further. You and the other guys go on and have your nice little conversations, here or on a newer thread, but please leave me out of it, and let me leave in peace without being drug through the mud yet another time.

  9. J. Griffin says:

    Ben,
    I have a little problem with your time line and perhaps you can clear it up for me. First, you say you were playing 845s and they were a bit outdated and you elude to some 15 years later that the Armours are recogized as some of the best clubs ever made. I’d have to agree with that as I too played these irons in 1991 as did my good friend Jim Thorpe. So, i’m guessing that you played them in 1995 or therebouts. So, here is the problem. Rik Massengale (and his older brother was Don) played the tour until 1983 when he retired due to back problems. In 1997, he tried the Senior Tour for a bit. So, I’m wondering just what year did you see him not only playing in the Houston Open but playing well enough that he would have made the cut? I can’t for the life of me find it anywhere around that time. In fact, the History of the Houston Open shows the last time that Rik Massengale played in the Houston Open was 1982, the year that he retired and he didn’t make the cut then.

  10. Ben Shatley says:

    J. Griffin, He was playing in 4-spots and such just short of his 50th birthday, while preparing for the senior tour. I do not know if he qualified for the Houston Open or if he was exempted. He was doing well for a while. I did see him on TV. But it may not have been on Sunday, now that I think about it. Now that I remember, it might have been Thursday or Friday. It was a long time ago. In fairness to him, he was a gentleman all day long. His caddie was not, but Rik was. He treated me very well, just like he’d known me his whole life. Anytime I hit a good shot, he was there saying “good shot Ben” or “good swing Ben.” So I remember him as a good guy. Also, he did not leave because of me or anything, as far as I know. He left around the tenth or eleventh hole because he had shot 40 on the front, and just wanted to catch an earlier flight. Perhaps I am too proud of hanging in there with a bonafied tour player. It has meant a lot to me over the years, just to know that I held my own that day. My ego gets the best of me sometimes, especially when I am responding to hateful comments, like those coming from Roy. But no, Mr. Masingale did not leave because of me. Now if you think I am lying or something, you can call the Carolinas PGA Section if you want to find out whether or not I am telling the truth about being an apprentice and such. I was an apprentice in the section back then. My boss was Jeff Osler, who went on to be the head pro at a course in Hilton Head after that, so the Surge may know him. I don’t know. I played in several GGO (used to be GGO) 4-spots, and other Carolinas Section events The year I played with Mr. Masingale, I missed the 4-spot by 2 strokes. I know that is not a big deal to anybody here, but it was and still is to me, particularly since I hung in there and came back with a good back nine a couple under. But look, I do not care if you think I am lying or not. If you think I am, there is nothing I can do to convince you otherwise, except maybe have you call my old boss, or something. I just want to leave out of here in peace, with some measure of my dignity left. I do not want to converse with you or anybody else here anymore. If you think I am lying to you, so be it. Just leave me the heck alone, for crying out loud.

  11. Ben Shatley says:

    It may not have been the Houston Open. It was in Texas, as I remember. He is from Texas. You may want to check the other Texas stops, if you are that anxious to burn me at the stake. It was a long time ago. I do not remember it all exactly as it happened.

  12. Ben Shatley says:

    Now would you like my social security number so you can do a full background check on me before I am allowed to leave with my dignity still in tact? Is there anything else you want? Do you want me to look up phone numbers, so you can bother everybody I have ever known or met? I did work as an assistant pro at Gillespie Golf Course in Greensboro, NC from 1992 until 1996. I worked under Raymond (Doc) Smith, Jeff Osler, and Bob Brooks. I would probably still be there had Bob Brooks not falsely accused me of stealing. I was an assistant coach to the Grimsley golf team (honorary) on which Carl Petterson played, and played many rounds of golf with those boys. The number two player also played some college golf. I had worked with him from the time he was about 12, and had taught him to swing in a fairly vertical fashion. (Though I told him some wrong things back then, such as to swing in a figure eight to stop a slice, which I regret quite a bit). The 4-spot was at Stoney Creek. We played the tips. I brought in a 74, after having a rough couple of holes on the front. I may not have all the details correct. But I was there. It did happen, pretty much just as I told you it happened. I have not spoken with Carl since 1996, so I have no idea if he would remember me or not. He probably wouldn’t. But I guess you could call him and ask him if you want to check me out further. So what else do you want to know, Mr. Griffin? My Grandmother’s dog’s name is Molly. Anything else?

  13. Ben Shatley says:

    After a few years of recovering from the mess that happened at Gillespie, and coming to the realization that golf is STILL AN OPEN GAME WHERE THE PROOF IS IN THE PUDDING, I went back into the apprentice program under Tim Gupton, at Kerr Lake in Henderson, NC. I was there about two years. At that point, I decided I was tired of making 7 dollars an hour, that I was getting too old to have a chance to be a playing pro, and went back to school to learn information and computer science. I could go on here all day long, if you want? Would you like to know the names of other tour players I have played with and learned from? Bill Hall? Chuck Thorpe? Other NC guys? But you see, today is the 50th anniversary of the Woolworth sit-in in Greensboro. Gillespie golf course was the first golf course to be integrated I think on the entire east coast, if not North Carolina. I learned the most, not from the PGA Tour guys, but from the old pros who had the stuff, but never had the opportunity. I learned from guys like George Levette aka “Old Pro” who took me under their wing, accepted me as family, and helped me with the game even though I had no money and was a white kid. Those guys did all they could to help me. And I will never forget it. So you can research that, and check that out also, while you are at it. And when you are done, and you realize that golf is still an OPEN game, where the PROOF IS IN THE PUDDING, and not some elitist crap, then you may begin to understand where I have been and what I have been through, and why I have tried to help others here, despite the attitude and hatred of some.

  14. Ben Shatley says:

    And yes, Mr. Griffin, I will help you out by answering your question: Yes, you do have a problem. Now leave me the heck alone, you SOB.

  15. Ben Shatley says:

    For other posters here, who want to see a good vertical swing in action. You can watch my old high-school player Carl Petterson. He takes the club back straight up. And I mean STRAIGHT UP, probably more than anybody on Tour. So for those of you who have given me a hard time about what I have said, in order to try to help others here with their swing. If you do not believe me, then just watch Carl. I have seen his swing in person many, many times. And he hits it on a darn string all day long. …I mean all day long, every single day. So there you go. Is everybody happy now? Anymore smart-aleck comments? Anybody else want to burn me at the stake today? Anybody else want to try to convince me that I am just a loser and a joke? Like I said, I have all the time in the world.

  16. Ben Shatley says:

    When I left Kerr Lake, and had decided that I was too old to play anymore, it was because I had lost a lot of distance. I know now that it was my swing. So that is why I first posted on the “diminishing driver distance” thread here the other day, and have been stuck here answering a defending myself against a bunch of hateful and bigoted comments ever since. I will tell you, this is the last time I ever (EVER) try to help anybody with their d*mn golf swing!

  17. Ben Shatley says:

    And if you, Mr. Griffin, or anybody else, come back at me with some smart-aleck crap about Carl being from Sweden, and thus could not have attended Grimsley High-School, I am going to hunt your ars down and kick the ever-loving hell out of it!

  18. Ben Shatley says:

    …unless you feel funky enough to peg it up with me, and then I will take every dime you have.

  19. Roy says:

    Hey Ben, here are some words for you having nothing to do with golf:

    Fun, tongue in cheek, pulling your chain, in jest. I have not seen one single post directed at you done in bigotry or hate.

    Dude, I am beginning to think that you are really 11 years old!

    BTW, I am not an 8 handicapper, I am really a tour pro staying home recuperating from a motorcycle accident. I will be back on the tour by the middle of next month. I will wave at you when the camera zooms on me.

    Stay erect!

    I meant to write, keep it up!

    Ooops sorry, stay vertical! lol

  20. J. Griffin says:

    Ben,
    So, you have stooped to name calling? I asked a simple question based on information that you had given. What was the harm in that? I would expect the same from any one if I gave information out that they knew was incorrect. I will say though that you do seem to have a self esteem problem and feel the need to vidicate and defend yourself continually. Maybe it would be a good idea if someone wants to communicate with you that you put your email address on here and they can contact you directly and you won’t feel badgered by those who would just as soon see you leave. Just a suggestion. It would seem to solve a lot of issues.

    Also, since you are a professing Christian, I think the judgemental call of me being a SOB might, ahem, as you say, be over the line.

  21. Ben Shatley says:

    Roy, both of your two most recent comments to me have been bigoted, arrogant, and disrespectful. ..and I mean the plain old common respect due a human being. I asked people to please not comment to me or about me. But you did anyway, just for the sole purpose of being hateful. You can do that here, because you are too chicken to give your full name. I however have given my full name, and this crap will stay in the archives till the cows come home. Do you understand yet? Could I please have what is left of my dignity and be able to leave here with that last little bit of it that I have left, as you all want me to leave anyhow? It is not funny. Do you see me laughing?

  22. Ben Shatley says:

    J Griffin, your comments implied that I was lying. You are not innocent. If you do not want to be an SOB, then stop acting like one. You acused me of lying. Plain and simple. If you are a professing Christian, then look at the log in your eye.

  23. Ben Shatley says:

    I would do the same? Ok then J, I do not believe you are a club-fitter. I don’t think you have a clue with respect to fitting clubs. I think you bought a few books, and fancy yourself an expert. How’s that? Is that “doing the same” enough for you?

  24. J. Griffin says:

    Ben,
    My goodness son. First, don’t threaten me with bodily harm. Second, get over your persecution complex. I did not call you a liar. I stated what you had posted was in error. So, tell me where I was wrong! If you’re going to keep on defending yourself like this one has to conclude that you must be guilty of something. The old saying that the guilty pig squeals the loudest sure does seem to apply. You aren’t helping yourself out here. I’m sorry that you’ve had it hard and that things didn’t work out with you in golf, football, your business, and apparently life, but I haven’t done a single thing but ask you to clarify a post that you made in error. Actually clarify two errors. The first being that a 90MPH swing speed would get you 280 yards when it is a physical impossibility according to the laws of physics which you can calculate distance by and the second having Rik Massengale playing in the Houston Open in the 1990’s. So, if by asking you to speak to your errors in your posts makes you feel challenged or threatened, then you sir, have a more serious problem than anything to do with this site.

  25. J. Griffin says:

    Ben,
    It doesn’t really matter to me what you say to or about me. I’m not in the least bit threatened by you. In fact, when I just read your post, I must admit it gave me a good little chuckle. That is the difference in knowing who and what you are and being threatened or challenged by what someone else says. Boy, the more you type one here, the deeper you dig your hole.

  26. Ben Shatley says:

    Mr. Griffin, you are right about the comment, and I will apologize for calling you an SOB. But I cannot apologize for anything else I said to you. Please, give me the dignity of not having my grandchildren search for my name 20 years from now, only to find this thread, and find out their grandad was a big joke and a loser. Ok? Can you, sir, as a Christian, please do that? Will you please, leave me alone? Please?

  27. Ben Shatley says:

    I told you, Mr. Griffin, that it was a tournament in Texas. I cannot remember exactly if it was the Houston Open, or not. So you are right about that, if you have looked up the records. I did not intend to threaten anybody. What I said was figurative, in order to show you how much you are provoking me to anger, and still are doing so. I do not care if you do not believe me either. Ok? Can we please leave it at that?

  28. Ben Shatley says:

    The more you provoke me, Mr. Griffin, the deeper my hole gets. Yes. That is exactly my point. So will you please stop? Or would you like me to just go hang myself and do the world a favor?

  29. J. Griffin says:

    Ben,
    I was doing what you asked and leaving you alone and you had to make one more post and push me. Well, I won’t be pushed but I do feel I need to say that I’m not doing anything to provoke you. I haven’t called you any names, I haven’t said anything that wasn’t true, and all I did was question you on information that you had given and have since responded to your attacks. So, I’m fine with letting it go. So, just let it do.

  30. This is disgraceful & has nothing what so ever to do with the mechanics of the PPGS & hinders all attempts to have constructive support & advice on the GOLF topic or lesson..please dont bore those members wanting real advice & feedback & i think i speak for all

  31. jimsha says:

    Hey Ben,

    Did check out Carl’s swing on pga.com. Really as vertical as I have seen. But maintains a nice full arc throughout. They say he is along hitter and that’s probably the reason why. A little different at address with the hands high and straight out, but you can’t argue with success what with making about 6 million since ‘06.

  32. mark k says:

    HEY!!!! If both of you guys are tour pros you must be playing with the First Tee the way you guys are going at it. Cut it out, no one cares and you should be helping the bloggers looking for help. We are not interested in who played what, when, where and with who. Help those that are looking for it.

  33. Tony S. says:

    Surge,

    I’ve been a member for about 3 or 4 weeks now with no real improvement in my score. I’ve been reading, practicing and playing as much as possible. I live near New Orleans (WHO DAT) so practicing is not a problem, except for work. I notice I’m having difficulty with my 5 and 6 irons by either topping the ball or hitting way before the ball and chunking it. It also happens with some shorter irons as well. (No consistency yet) I’ve gone back over the videos several times but can’t figure out what’s happening. Any suggestions?

    Thanks
    Tony

  34. John Won says:

    The Surge,

    “The key to swinging vertical is that the right hand has to take over, and take over BT (Big Time) to lift the club to the vertical T-Finish over the left shoulder.

    Once you are approaching impact, the right hand and forearm have to be activating, so once the club reaches the mitt (parallel to the ground) the hand and forearm can stop the arms and club from rotating past palms perpendicular to the ground and club toe up, and make the club go straight up to 12:00 o’clock.”

    1. Could you specify the position of the left forearm during the down swing when my right hand
    takes over with maximum force, please? If possible with a drawing illustration.

    2. Please show me how to maintain the proper distance between the my head and the club face
    at the impact of the ball to avoid a fat shot. I prefer not to pull the club toward the body to
    compensate the centrifugal force pull to a ground. This is not easy to do – the intentional pull
    of the club to meet the ball on the club face sweet spot. Is there any good tip for this problem?

    Thank you. John W. San Francisco, California Jan. 2, 2010

  35. Simon Leach says:

    There is no such thing as the “law of centrifugal force”. In fact, there is strictly no such thing as centrifugal force, it is an APPARENT force arising from you applying a centripetal force on the club to swing it in an approximate circular path. You apply a force on the club – it applies a force on you, this is an application of the much misunderstood Newton’s Third Law. Anyway the net result is that you accelerate the club in an (approximate) circle. This apparent centrifugal force will be equal in magnitude but opposite in direction to the centripetal force. Perhaps you mean to say INERTIA keeps the club going? There is a law of inertia or Newton’s first law.

    LEACH THE TEACH

  36. Ben Shatley says:

    Yes sir, jimsha. Carl does indeed. His distance and accuracy are mostly a result of that backswing, in my opinion. He has had that swing since way back in high-school.

  37. Ben Shatley says:

    J. Griffin. I’m not holding any grudges, here. I want you to know that. I want to try to make this end on a better note than yesterday, if I possibly can. I looked at your website, and I can see that you are a good man, and are not who or what I thought you were at first. There is one other thing that I must get off my chest, before it eats me alive. Please do not take it as an offense. I missed one of your posts, that I found to be quite interesting, in that I have heard that same “guilty by self-defense” reasoning before. I have heard it one other time in all my 38 years. …exactly one other time. That is the exact same “reasoning” that Mr. Bob Brooks used to “prove” my guilt of stealing. …almost word-for-word in fact. It is sad that we live in a world where professing Christian men, who are also PGA Professionals, would use such irrational and backward reasoning to assume the guilt of another human being. Why do we do that? I may have problems. I don’t take criticism as well as I should. I get angry. I get defensive too often. I misread what people say or do. I misunderstand comments that are meant as a joke. I do not take accusation well at all. I have all sorts of emotional problems. I even have to take medicine for it. Heck, I could make a list a mile long of the problems with me. After this thread, there are dozens more people who could make a list a mile long of problems with me :) But I am not a thief. You would think that a reasonable and good man would want to know the actual truth, and be inclined to hold to logical thinking, as opposed to making assumptions based on someone’s behavior. This is the one thing that bothered me the most about what happend at Gillespie. Losing my job wasn’t that big of a deal. But I could not, and still cannot understand why I was assumed guilty simply because I stood up and defended myself. It is unfathomable that such things happen in the workplace in this United States. But they do. The fact that a man may over-defend himself, or get angry even, is not rational evidence of any guilt in a given matter. That sort of reasoning is about as backward and irrational as it gets. As for whether or not I am guilty of anything ever in my life. Well, you have Romans 3:23 posted on your website, so you already know the answer to that. We are all guilty the moment we are born. As to whether or not life or golf or business hasn’t worked out for me, I do not think that God is done with me yet. He is obviously not done yet, because I am still breathing. It will be over when He says it is over. I do not know what the plan is, but I do know that it will be good. His way is always good. Please accept my apologies, if I have offended you. Please accept my apologies for my harsh and cruel comments. I was angry and too worked up. I have no grudges against anybody in this life. …not even Bob. He was doing what he thought was right at the time, and he was doing the best he could do as a first-time head pro. He made a mistake. We all make mistakes.

  38. Can we all agree for the sake of ALL golfers trying to use this site simply to keep it for Golf Analysis NOT Self Analysis!!!!!!….it simply is intended for this sole purpose…us keen golfers dont care a bloody rats backside about anything not really related to the lesson at hand

  39. Ben Shatley says:

    To everyone else: my apologies for ruining this thread. I started out trying to help, and it turned into a mess. It was not all my fault.

  40. Hal Frost says:

    After I got the videos I had trouble slicing my long irons and woods. After watching a video of myself, I thought that I was collapsing my left arm too early and it was dragging the clubhead around my body instead of “up the tree.” I now visualize my follow through as though I am going to throw the club at the target while rotating to toe up after impact and this has allowed my swing to stay down the target line better and has taken care of my slice. I don’t know if this is correct or not but it has helped me and may help someone else. Any feedback?

  41. Hal Frost says:

    This is rediculous. A lot of people on here are looking for some real help, as promised. And all you guys are doing is arguing! If you are an instructer, then instruct. If you are not an instructer and you aren’t looking for help, move on. Most of this whole post is just stupid ramblings about stuff that does not help anyone and is frustrating. Use the post for what it was designed to be used for. INSTRUCTION AND HELP

  42. head hacker says:

    I was really looking forward to a logical discussion about long irons. I used to love to hit my 2 and even the 1 iron a couple of years back. When I mentally prepared for a “soft shot” I hit them square and decently long, and when I “overcooked” the swing did I get slices and hooks and everything else.

    So my questions are … should there be a different mental preparation for the longer irons, does this include fairway woods as well, and does it extrend to the driver to a greater degree.

    And given the technical discussion earlier, since these clubs are longer, should not keeping your hands/forearms at the same speed as shorter clubs produce a higher club-head speed (and of course when coupled with proper swingpath and clubface alignment and a less loft result in longer shots)? The point being you can swing the longer clubs at the same hand speed and get more distance.

  43. Barry Lowther says:

    Hi Surge, Still waiting for the weather to clear up here in the UK, got rid of the snow and now we have rain! Anyway my question is – Some years ago I was listening to a golf discussion on the radio and the question came up “Why not have the shaft length of all iron clubs the same, say 5 or 6 iron length. Less complications in set-up and ball position” What do you think?

  44. Ben Shatley says:

    Hal, I know it has been four days since you asked your question. I would like to help you, but I am not a PPGS expert. I’m not much of a good player anymore either. So I am probably not going to be of much help to you here. Mr. Trahan talks about skipping a rock. Arnold Palmer says to throw the clubhead down the line. So my honest answer for you is that I just do not know. Perhaps Mr. Griffin or one of the certified PPGS teachers will give their advice within the context of the PPGS system.

  45. Ben Shatley says:

    BTW, Mr. Frost, and others. It may seem like nonsense, but something happened in the course of that argument, which essentially has cleared my name about 14 years after the fact. Neither I nor Mr. Griffin knew it would happen. But it did. What was once my word against another man’s word, is now public published content on the web. Some things were mentioned, which could’ve only likely come from certain sources, because parts of my background were mentioned, which I never mentioned on this site. So that last post of mine to Mr. Griffin was most defintely not self-analysis. It was simply a civil and gentlemanly way to let him know that the discrepancy was not missed on my part, and that I understand that he did nothing wrong, because I gave him permission to do what he did. In any event, if any of you guys want my help, feedback, opinion, or to just discuss something about golf, I would be glad to participate, provided you understand that I am not a PPGS expert, am no longer a teacher, am no longer affiliated with the PGA. and that I may likely tell you something that could be incorrect, most particularly with respect to the subject at hand and the PPGS method.

  46. Jim from CT says:

    Surge,

    I signed up for your DVD program about six weeks ago, hoping to improve my swing. I am 62 and have been playing golf for about 30 years, and always a high handicapper (26). I live in Connecticut, and could only practice your techniques using a weighted club indoors due to the weather. Last week, I had a business/pleasure trip to Maui. I was able to play 5 times over the eight days, and put your system into practice. First I noticed more consistent results, with fewer misses and arrant shots. Scores went from 105 the first day, to 88 the last day, after the puts started to fall. The keys for me were the basic swing in the DVD’s and two of your daily tips: the diagram of the catcher’s mitt, up the tree and the right arm swing. Just as important was you Surgeism of forgetting about the errant and bad shots and move on, trusting the swing.

    I am still having a problem coming over the top and with my alignment but cannot wait to get back on a golf course (though with the snow coming down, it may be awhile) and using your tips and comments into practice. Thanks

    Jim from CT

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