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We have a question from Inner Circle member, Jim. Jim says, “Hi, So, I have been struggling with my ball striking and in the past have had neck and upper back aches after playing golf. I am an 8 handicapper and it is creeping up quite quickly. I stumbled across PPGS and thought I’d give it a try. I’ve been going to the driving range for the last few weeks. As I write this email I am suffering from excruciating lower back pain. I know it’s really hard to figure out what I might be doing wrong without seeing my new swing in the making but any ideas what I might be doing that is clearly putting strain on my lower back. I have reduced my shoulder turn dramatically so it is at most a 3 quarter turn, but clearly I haven’t quite mastered this swing to see the end to all back problems!
“Looking forward to receiving some advice, will have plenty of time to catch up with emails as I won’t be able to play my usual regular round this weekend…Cheers, Jim.”
Well, Jim, I’m glad that you’re at least still cheerful. I guess that’s because you have a sense that the Peak Performance Golf Swing is going to work for you. We have an answer from another Inner Circle member, Bob, who wrote: “Hi Jim, Welcome to the Inner Circle.
“Although I obviously haven’t seen you in action, I have a sneaking suspicion that you are not keeping your spine straight. The most probable cause is not being preloaded heavy right, but instead you might be leaning to the right in order to have your center of balance shifted aft. This causes a crooked spine, uneven tension in the muscles in your lower back and resulting inflammation and pain.
“To correct this, take a look at the updated setup videos. This setup flaw is addressed in some detail. By being properly preloaded on the right side with a straight spine, you will be able to rotate easily and avoid the stress which is causing your pain. Hit ‘em long and straight.”
Well, Bob, that’s great advice to Jim because we know from experience that many golfers over do the preloaded heavy right and lean too far and are out of balance at address. This puts tremendous strain on the spine, especially when they start swinging.
But what I want to address here is that, despite the answer being very good, I’m going to go to another area. Jim said he reduced his shoulder turn dramatically and it is clear that he is at a 3/4 turn. I think he’s worked on his backswing but he’s not mentioning anything about his transition and finish. I’m going to look at the finish as a possible, really big cause of excruciating back pain. I think that since the advent of the rotational golf swing, more back pain is coming from the finish than it is the backswing.
Now why would that be the case? Well, for starters, the backswing is always a much slower process. You’re turning and loading into your back side. In most, cases golfers turn too much with the rotational swing. The back leg is straightening up and it puts tremendous strain on the body. But I don’t believe that strain is anywhere near as bad after you’ve made a huge turn, the back leg is locked, and now the golfer is deep in the Sacred Burial Ground, he snaps his legs, his hips and shoulders. I’ve had students tell me in lessons that no matter how fast they could turn and snap their hips and shoulders, which locks up their forward leg it was never fast enough. Faster, faster, faster. You can’t turn to the forward side fast enough.
The faster we turn and pull the arms and club with it, what happens? The forward leg straightens. As soon as that leg straightens, that immediately starts tremendous stress, going into the hips and to the lower back and eventually up to the shoulders and neck.
The problem really is the rotation goes to the point now where golfers are not taught to finish square to the target. They’re taught to turn as far onto the forward leg as they can, where they get the back shoulder pointing at the target. That mean their chest is now pointing 40, 50, 60, 80 or more yards beyond the target instead of square to it.
That is one unbelievable amount of twisting. A locked leg puts stress on the hips and up to the shoulders and neck because of going so far past the target and doing it is such a fast rotation and speed. The arms eventually swing the club over and, in most cases, collapse around the shoulder, which adds an extra jerk to the end.
I’m just going to say, Jim, I think that’s the case where you need to look. You might not be doing it, but I think if you do check it and you are starting by rotating your hips too much and you are finishing beyond square to the target, that is your body, your nose, your belt buckle and your back knee pointing at the target or rather way left of the target, if you’re a right hander or right if you’re a left hander, if you’re turning way past your target I would say that could be the major cause of your pain and you need to start finishing square to the target.
You worked on your backswing, let’s check out your forward swing and finish and see if that’s the problem. If you are going past it, I think squaring up to the target in your finish you’ll see tremendously better ball striking. I think you’ll see this back pain and hip pain really going away.
The Surge!
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Jim, I know that you said that you are going to the driving range to work on the PPGS but are you also practicing your putting for extended periods of time. I only ask because you are a low handicapper which means you probably putt well and probably practice it often. FYI, PPGS has NOT helped my back from stiffening during or after putting practice sessions. I would recommend a good stretching routine both before and after golfing and any other aid that you can bring with you until the pain starts to diminish. I am just contributing some information that I hope may help you put 2 and 2 together so you can enjoy life and golf!
Back pain is nothing to fool around with. Maybe its not “what you are doing”, but “what you are not doing”. Streatching and warming up before you swing to loosen you back, neck, arms and shoulders could help, and also stretching during your round. Do not wait if the pain continues to see a doctor.
You might want to take a look at the Lynx back stretcher. I suffered for a long, long time with back problems before I found that little tool. I use it very, very infrequently now, whenever my back gets a little stiff. Works like a charm. It's simple to use, effective, and extremely portable. I've suggested it to other friends, who since purchased one and now swear by it.
This feature today got me thinking about some Pro golfers who finish quite differently than I believe the PPGS teaches. Watching Lee Westwood and Paul Casey during this years Open one notices a pronounced forward finish. I wonder if this is a British anomaly brought on by playing in heavy winds? Are they purposely trying to extend or keep the clubface square or “level” in an attempt to keep the ball flight low?
Trying to follow the instructions with the backswing into the mitt and up the tree has proven to be very difficult for me – just can't seem to understand how to transition smoothly to the “up-the-tree” portion. It does not seem like my rotation is finished (even though I try to keep the arm/chest triangle intact) when the clubhead gets in the mitt. What do I do with my spine angle then? The up the tree part seems to make me tend to stand up and do an ineffective, army swing and have no consistency. It all seems arkward and uncomfortable to change the direction my arms are moving at that point. Any advice would be welcomed.
BINGO! It's amazing how few people do any kind of stretching prior to hitting shots at the range. I go through a whole battery of stretching (especially lower back) taught to me by a physical therapist. Then I take about 20 easy practice swings with a weighted club (Momentus Iron).
I herniated two disks back in my college football days but have zero back issues when it comes to practice and play.
Ted Baader, Jr.
Valencia, CA
Greetings Don
I am making good progress with the PPGS swing. I am a high handicapper and I have an issue with hitting every iron higher than my gap wedge to the left, on and off the tee. I can’t figure out why the club heads are closed at impact. Every once in awhile I get a good result from a shot but it is not often enough. It does not matter if the shaft, graphite or steel, I hit both the same. Even when my alignment
Is correct, the ball will fly off the face to the left. I have not had a fitting, but if I can’t hit ‘em straight, how can a fitting help? Anyway, can you offer any advice beyond what you have already to help with this issue? My stats..Right handed, 5’9’, 176 lbs.
Thanx
Eagle509
I have found that during warm up on the range, take a full swing with the driver and attempt to hit the ball 100 yards. The ball will go much further but keep the swing slow and smooth and increase tempo and swing speed slowly to about 80 percent. Take this swing to the course and the back pain will decrease or go away. I have used this system for years and now follow the PPGS system with a decrease in handicap from 12 to 6. I will be 72 shortly.
Wouldn't it be great if we saw Jim's actual swing instead of depending on words to describe it? I know for certain that where a person thinks they are in 3D space in their swing is NOT where they really are. And even if Jim's swing was exactly what he said it was … wouldn't is also be great to see Jim hit the ball with a perfect PPGS swing after taking Surge's advice? No more guessing. Know what is going on and how to fix it so you KNOW ahead of time where the ball is going to go.
Surge,
Great advice. Rotational swing leftovers affects a lot of us. Especially, if we are older and have been using it for a long time. I would like you to spend more time on how to get to the “square finish”. It may sound simple to you, but I find that I often end up out of line and hitting the ball either left or right, even with good contact. I find that I'm usually off balance, but I don't know how I got there!!!! Anyway, my game is steadily improving and I have recommeded PPGS to all of my friends.
Glad you're feeling better and are “Stayin Vertical”!!!
There is a slight incongruity in a couple of things The Surge says about the upswing and finish (or maybe its just my understanding of what he means). Surge suggests that you do the “bump” and then “explode your hips through the turn”. What this does for me is what Don seems to think Jim is doing, which is a limited backswing turn, but a very long finish turn with the right shoulder pointing at the target. I don't know how to make that explosive hip turn without doing that. The advice seems to contradict itself. So….how do you move your hips through fast and stop them short of facing the target?
Lynn,
Not relevant to this particular tip but can you explain palms perpindicular and left wrist flat? Having a hard time grasping that concept and how to tell if I am correct at the top. I am pulling irons and hooking drives even though I end up facing the target. I think I may be over releasing the club or maybe incorrect at the top with my wrists? Any help appreciated!
Hi Ken,
Thanks to you, the Surge and others for taking the time to reply. You all have offered sound advice. I'm sure my back problem is likely to be a combination of lack of warm-up/stretching and poor technique. I don't think I spend too long practicing putting, 5 minutes before a round tops
In fact I rarely practice any part of my game, don't have the time unfortunately. I only hit the range recently to try out PPGS because I want to make the necessary changes for the longer term benefit of my game and physical well being.
Eagle509, I'll takea stab at your question. It sounds like you may be releasing the club OK, but from an over-the-top move. If you make sure you “bump” your left hip (assuming right-handed) first and allow the club to start falling, you should get it in the slot and approach the ball from down the line instead of outside it. With the same release of the club you had before, the shots should be going straight. If, in fact you released too much, but still came down the line, you would hit a draw or hook, not a straight left shot.
Alex, I had a similar issu at first. Being used to my old rotational swing, I would tend to stand up as I went “up the tree”. I finally figured out I was doing that and then made a real point of lifting ONLY my arms up once I'd reached the toe line. It made all the difference in the world. Solid, straight shots as opposed to shots that were going every which way. The thought I use to prevent the stand-up is to keep my head at the same hight through impact. Hope that helps.
Hi Surge
I am having a hard time with this swing, I must be doing something wrong I am setting up, stance, swing and everything and its just not working, I am skiing driver Tee shots everything is wrong, how much do you load up on the right side,
I have gone back to my original 90 degree shoulder turn and hitting them a lot better
since using or trying to use PPGS my scores are averaging 118 per round
I'm not sure my terminology will come across correctly, but I'll try. If you allow the finish to take the club over your forward shoulder, or even outside of it, then you will have probably rotated your shoulder and hips too far. If you concentrate on finishing up over your forward collar bone and near your forward ear then your turn should finish pointing at or just past the target. In other words, the vertical finish that is the opposite of the vertical backswing should almost automatically produce the correct hip and body turn.
Hi Surge,
I really love reading your prognosses, any time i am struggling with my game
i just read your bloggs.fantastic keep up the excellent work.
Rick 13 hc
Your rotation is not supposed to be finished when your clubhead is in the mitt. Remember, the mitt is just an inch or so inside the aiming line. It is NOT on the toeline. It is when your left arm and club (assuming you're a righty) reach the toeline that the turn is finished and the lift up the tree begins. There is a slight change of direction as your swing becomes vertical at this point, but it should be a smooth action. It will feel more natural as you get used to doing it. As you lift up the tree, just let the upper part of your left arm contact your chin, and that should be the top of your backswing.
this is covered really good in the dvd updated version.log into member area and go to dvds.then click on grip.hope this helps.
i havent seen don say explode your hips.he says do the bump then make contact with ball and then asap pop up into your T finish.hope that helps.
I really enjoyed Don's master setup video, and am anxious to try out his
techniques. I am puzzled that he didn't spend more time on the release of the
clubhead through the ball and the pro-nation phase of the swing after impact. I
always had trouble with this and needed some more instruction in slow motion. I
thought that with the vertical swing, I would naturally do this, but it seems
that the clubface is still open too much as my shot are still fading to the
right or slicing some. Can you give me the needed advice to remedy this? I do
like the quick, high T finish that he recommends, but I just cant seem to get
the clubhead square at impact and then finish properly to prevent the slice.
The swing is putting less stress on my shoulder too, which is really good!
Whilst I realise that the advice you recently gave on how to reduce or cure back pain may have been sound, at no time did you suggest that the afflicted person might consider doing stretching exercises or seeking advice from a qualified physiotherapist. All athletes who operate within any organised training structures are taught the benefits of stretching before exercising. My own son was trained in the importance of stretching when he was a potential Olympic competitor. His received advice to me (together with the advice of qualified physiotherapists) has resolved most if not all of my back problems. Correctly performed stretching exercises will alleviate many of the “back problems” that otherwise healthy people suffer. Physiotherapy has advanced a long way in the past few decades and normal people (ie not highly trained athletes) can benefit enormously from the advice of physiotherapists. By combining this informed physiotherapeutic advice with the advice you offer, back pains and other painful problems arising from attempting to hit a golf ball “too hard” or “too frequently” may be reduced significantly
Hello PPGSers, Does anyone have any mental pictures or physical techniques for standing up straight after the upswing? I haven't been able to connect with the pop tart idea. I have produced the inverted “C” finish for many years and find it difficult to stop, even using the other attributes of PPGS. So far, no back problems but don't want to get any either. Thanks!
James, this is a fairly common problem. A quick check is to put a head cover
under your forward arm and take practice swings with or w/o a club. If the
head cover falls from under your forward arm on the follow through, it tells you
that you are keeping the forward folding correctly. If it doesn't fall on the forward swing, you are locking your forward arm in an exageratted manner.
The result could be pushes/ push fades/ push slices or even shanks.
The correct action is when both arms are nearing/ at/slightly past impact, fully extending for the only time in the swing. At this point, the forward arm folds and the rear arm continues straight which CAUSES the forearm rotation and hence
the clubface rotation. Do the “cactus drill” and observe the hand motion as
you go from the rear cactus to the forward cactus. This is a GREAT teaching
aid and will enhance your understanding of the correct action of the hands/arms.
Parchaser
I HAVE BEEN HAVING THE SAME PROBLEM INTERMITENTLY. I NEVER PAY ATTENTION TO MY WRISTS BUT FOUND I WAS NOT PUTTING ENOUGH RIGHT INTO IT. I HAVE ALWAYS LED WITH MY LEFT & FOUND I WAS DOING IT MORE & MORE THINKING THAT WOULD SOLVE THE EQUATION. WRONG. MAKE SURE YOUR RIGHT ARM IS AT 11 O'CLOCK & YOUR FORE ARMS ARE ROTATING BACK TOGETHER. IF YOU START LOSING DISTANCE, MAKE SURE YOUR RIGHT ELBOW IS IN L POSITION…THAT WILL GIVE YOU A BIGGER ARC. HOPE THIS HELPS. THIS IS THE ONLY THING THAT GOT RID OF “MY PULLING SNAKE”. NOT ENOUGH RIGHT. WHEN DONE CORRECTLY I CAN FEEL IT IN MY RIGHT SHOULDER. ALL I HAVE TO DO IS HAVE THE CORRECT SETUP & ROTATE THOSE FOREARMS “TOGETHER”. EVERYTHING ELSE FALLS INTO PLACE.
I should have proof read my reply to James. The head cover remains under
the forward arm if the arm is folding properly. It will fall if the forward arm is
ramrod straight through impact. Sorry for the confusion.
Parchaser
This may or may not be your problem, but something to be aware of is not letting your left wrist (assuming you are a righty) “cup” on the backswing. Cupping means bending the wrist up so that the back of the hand gets closer to the forearm. This opens the clubface and makes it very hard to square it again by impact. Concentrate on keeping a flat left wrist throughout the backswing and down into impact.
You may also need to move the ball a little more forward in your stance to give the clubface more time to square up.
And one more thing I forgot to mention is that it's possible your shafts are too stiff for your swing speed. If you can get to a good club fitter and have this checked out, it would be money well spent.
after watching the new videos i noticed when i transitioned i noticed i was straightening my right leg, causing the flat left foot, which i learned was a no no. also i don mentioned the ankles are rolling joints, which in the rotational swing we are told not to roll the ankles, and if im wrong someone please tell me, but we are to roll our ankles in the ppgs. well i was practicing on trying to keep a flexed left knee and hip, and i have a trainer which resembles a baseball bat, but weighs like 700 grams and was swinging that trying to get the proper transfer to the outside of my left foot and dont know what i did, i dont know if i swung too hard or put too much weight on my left ankle, but i feel as if i sprained my ankle and am wondering why? also in ppgs are we to drive our right leg towards are left? thanks for all the hard work and advice. keep em straight
Keith
Good idea, P.! I will try that. Thanks for the comment. J.
I thought that was the case! Thanks!
I think that the Cactus drill refers to the L shape position of the Cactus arm from the trunk?
Irons shots to green are great. But I'm hitting slices with the driver. Swing though of keeping back shoulder is not helping. Can't figure out why I'm swinging outside in – casting and have no idea how to correct it. I use to concentrate on right elbow close to side on downswing but the Peak swing discourages this move. Any suggestion
What makes you think the PPGS discourages returning your right elbow to your side in the down/upswing movement. Where else would you be trying to put your right elbow. Check out the Master Setup video for a better understanding of your right elbow. Close to the side is fine in the set up and the down/upswing, if you're returning it to that position after you have properly completed your backswing.
No it will not. This is absolutely a rotational swing training method. There is no way that the head cover stays in place when you finish in the T position.
Surge, I signed up for lessons during the British open and never heard back from you. I sent in my credit card number but have njot heard from them either. Did you not accept me as a client, or what? Urban Livengood 4505 Palm Grove Dr. Las Vegas, NV 89120, urbiepopee@embarqmail.com.
Posting that much personal information in a public forum is asking for trouble …. bordering on stupid.
Look at the FAQs directly above the comments .. if the transaction went through, the instructions are above. If the transaction didn't go through, check with your credit card issuer and/or customer service.
Eagle509,
Don't know if this will help or if it is even recommended. I used it to diagnosis my problem and it worked. If the problem is rotating your forearms and you don't even realize it, try this. Address the ball normally with the club face square behind the ball. Leaving the club face square rotate your forearms all the way to the left. Grip the club and make your normal swing. If the shot goes straight it is possible you are rotating your arms without realizing it. This didn't fix my problem, but it did identify the problem so I could fix it.
Good luck
Bill N
I, too, have a problem with lower back pain. I does not occur when I bend the 30 Deg. from the hips, but when I flex my knees. This seems to put a strain on my lower back. Burt
Surge, I've been working with an old high school friend who has invented a new swing trainer for experienced PGA golfers, Golf Instuctors, as well as beginners to just avid golfers. It has no club head, no shaft and you can't even hit a golf ball with it. I have had it in my hands about two month and have seen an increase in distance, more accuracy down the fairway, and I know I'm hitting the sweet spot better than ever i.e longer drives. Four PGA players I know of have seen it, used it and believe in it. It will be the hottest new training device coming out. If your interested in seeing it drop me a line. kent1golfer@yahoo.com, I know it would be a plus for PPGS, have a great day and and hit'm as I say, straight O. D.
Clark Kent
Dear Jim
When I was 35 / 40, I had a 275 / 290 yard drive once in a while a 300+ with a 15 / 29 yard draw now I have a 235 / 240 yard drive once in a while a 260 if the ball iS rooling down hill with a 15 / 20 yard slice …
My 150 yard club was a PW are a 9 iron, now it is an 8 iron sometimes a 7 iron …
The friends I play with all play from the Gold, while I play from the Whites and in most cases I wait for them to shoot first … (I gave up the Blues to those other guys)
I use to shoot in the 73 to 76 score range sometimes a little lower …
Now most score are in the 82 t0 86 range once in a while lower …
7 out of 10 my irons shoots are o.k. just my aiming is off with a slice to the right, always at the wrong time …
shoot 8 is a divit big enought for a water run-off ditch,
shoot 9 is a grass burner and
shoot 10 is high enough to bring down rain, always landing in the sand trap …
My age is now 76, (in good health, NO PILLS)
I love the game, …
QUESTION: Do I need to make changes to my game (ANY IDEAS) are play what GOD is giving me … AND BE HAPPY
Any HELP would be accepted
Joseph (Joe)
Thank heaven you addressed lower back pain. I have played golf for 55 years and never had lower back pain. I have tried several buckets of balls and have fallen to my knees after the first three or four swings. I used to have a 12 index and now at 81 years of age I am a 21. I will try squaring up and let you know. Thanks for your daily emails.
Saul in San Jose, ca.
Just a thought Larry –
The wider your stance is, the more likely you will end up in “the inverted C”
Try a narrower stance even if it feels wrong
Forward UP swing not forward ROTATION swing should do it
My friend, I am now 66 and I can note some tremendous changes in my body and my game from that of 60. As we grow older, all kinds of things begin to happent to our bodies, minds, and spirit. Like for instance when I was in my 40's to could play all day in 95 degree weather. Today, I find it hard to hit a half bucket of balls in that temperature.
You hit the nail on the head. Be happy with what God has given you–a long life and good health—go down the fairway in praise and laughter. By the way, do the best you can with PPG at this age. It definitely will make it easier on you. John (North Carolina)
Eagle509, go get yourself a fitting then you will have “no excuses”. No one can play the game they are capable of without a fitting. Clubs off the shelf fit no one because they are made for the average golfer and there is no such thing. We all are different and hit the ball differently and a fitting will find those quirks and help to correct them by setting up your clubs to fit your physical demensions and style. Lastly, a fitting doesn't cost that much. Too, if you want to start with a new set, a good fitter/club maker can get you a good set at between $700-$1200. You will definitely begin to amaze your playing buddies.
JD
My guess is that you are using too wide a stance with the driver and or not doing the bump. If I mess up on either, I tend to cast because I start with my shoulders.
Surge, i am trying PPGS-Swing since last year with very positive results for me. My lower back pain is away and the quality of my play has encreased. But since the last 3 weeks i´m suffering from pain in my knees, specially in my right knee. I went to a special surgen for knees an his diagnostic was i have a ruptured meniscus. Last monday i had an operation on my right knee. I hope in two or three weeks i can play again.
I´m sure the pain came only from playing and not from any other kind of action.
For my mind i´m doing everything all right, transaction pump etc.
Do you have any sugestion for me?
Thanks, Peter from Austria
(please apologize my bad english)
Airconjl, According to the stats you have given, you are doing much better than most weekend golfers half your age. A 235/240 avg on drives is well above the national average at any age, (for weekend golfers) and hitting a 7-iron 150yds is also quite well at your age. Believe it or not, there are a lot of young bucks who would love to have your stats. Check out these national averages.
• The average score on an 18-hole regulation golf course was 97 in 2004. Average score was 95 for men and 106 for women.
• The percentage of adult golfers by score category are: Score under 80 (8% of golfers); 80-89 (20%); 90-99 (31%); 100-119 (30%); and 120 and above (11%).
• Average score is a statistic that is very unlikely to change over time, because the pool of golfers is constantly being refreshed by newer, less skilled ones. Also, average score increases as golfers age, which tends to balance out better scores by younger players. I hope i'm playing that well at 76. Good luck.
Hi Surge,
Can't thanks you enough, the best money I've ever spent! The PPGS videos have really helped my game, especially with my irons and approach shots. I've hit probably 4-5 buckets over the last 10 days, and shot an 81 last week, my lowest round of the season. And I wasn't making any putts! I'm a 13 handicap, but had been heading in the wrong direction. It's taken a while to apply the PPG principals to my hybrid, 3 wood, but they're getting better. The real problem has been my driver. The straight swing “in the mitt, up the tree” usually produces pop ups, sometimes weak fades. I think my PPGS setup is correct, but I have to be doing something wrong. My driver was one of the best clubs in my bag previously, I'd hit it 280+, but sometimes pulling or fading a bit. What am I doing wrong with the driver? I'm 53 years old, no history of any back problems, pain, etc. I'm just trying to hit em straight!!
Cliff
What can I do to correct a very consistent push right? I don't slice-it is a push. when I over compensate, it seems that I start to hook, which by this point is hitting people behind me. (ok, I embellish) this is so frustrating. since viewing the videos, i am able to bomb drives 275+ yds, but am almost always pretty far right. (and yes, I am noting where my feet are positioned by laying a club on my toes to “point” where I want to be.) I hit to about “2 o'clock” on drives. Not as bad with my irons….
any insight would be greatly appreciated!!
Thanks,
Rob
Surge, I hadn't played much over the last ten years due to back pain but when I found your website, decided to give it another shot. Before I started with the program, I was scoring in the high 70's, low 80's most of the time, if I played more and worked on my short game a little harder I'd probably be low to mid 70's without much trouble. Still hit the ball 270 plus off the tee and had a relatively simple swing key of getting my left shoulder under my chin to ensure my full turn, after that everything took care of itself. I've been working on my “new” swing for about a month now. Was impressed at first that I could do so much with such a limited turn. But now it seems that the more I work on my swing, the more I'm losing distance and with the longer clubs accuracy. I've lost about 40-50 yards on the driver and am at least a club to two clubs shorter on all my other shots (used to comfortably hit PW 100-110, now am lucky to get it 80-90 yards). My divot pattern on my short irons looks like I'm about 15-20 yards to left of target even though the ball is going toward the target so I know I'm coming over the top on the swing, trying to finish the way I used to, essentially cutting everything and fading or with my driver, mostly wildly slicing the shots. I feel like my backswing is good, timing feels right but my “forward upswing” is really causing me fits. Is there any one or at most two swing keys that I could focus on to get me to the top properly (and get my scores back to within reason)?
Much more to come. I am 68 and can't believe the additional aches and pains acquired in the last two years. Ronniemac (Charlotte)
So Lynn, what would be a good training method for making sure of the pro-nation during the swing, and a good square up on the face, when we are using the PPGS? Will the forward arm fold at all to get to the T position?
I can agree and disagree with your comments I am 50 and I can say that my average scores have gone down over the last ten years shooting more now in the upper 70's to mid 70's compaired to mid 80's to 80 at the age 40. 1 thing that I have started doing is hitting the the treadmill 1 hour a day 6 days a week walking at 3 mph at different inclines and hitting lite weights 2 days a week working the legs, abs, etc. about a hour 2 days a week. their are days that I very from this but either way it helps. I hit 200 balls at the range twice a week mostly hitting 6 iron threw the wedges maybe hit 5-6 drivers and 3wd, 4wd, 3hb, 4hb. then about 30 minutes in the short game area chipping and pitching. You have to put the work in to shoot lower scores. I play with a retired jockey age 72 he shoots no higher than 75 for 18 from the blues 6100 yards hits his driver 200 yards but has a amazeing short game but he will not play when it is wet out because he loses about 30 yards on his driver. Its all in the short game 100 yards and in thats were you have to practice.
So i played a twilight round and shot 43 + 37= 80 I started really hitting the drives nice and all I thought about was getting my shoulder turn under my chin. BAM-
Before that I was to much with just the arms swinging, causing a weak fade at times. I sure hope it works for me this weekend. I know that seventy game is so close I can taste it.
Well, in the first place, you're not disagreeing with me, you're disagreeing with NGF Data base Marking Inc. These are their figures not mine! So according to their figures if Airconjl shoots between 82 and 86 most of the time as he claims, then he is in the top 28% of all golfers at any age. Again, these are not my figures, they are from a Data base company which compiles the information. And, if you are truly shooting in the 70s, then you are in the top 8% of all golfers regardless of the age factor. That was the basis of my comment. I did not enter into any discussion of what he might or might not do or practice in any effort to improve his game, or what part of his game would benifit him the most from practice. I merely presented some statistics on the average golfer in an effort to give him a little praise. For a golfer of 76yrs who shoots between 82 and 86 on average, he's way ahead of the majority of all golfers at any age. Let's see how well you're doing in another 26yrs. Hopefully as well as Airconjl. Now, as far as your comment on the short game, Yes, i agree, the single best way to lower your handicap is by improving your short game. A person who improves his putting and chipping enough to save either a putt or chip on just every other hole, will still lower his score by 9, thats a 75 instead of an 84. If Airconjl has been golfing since he was 35yrs as he stated, i'm pretty sure he already knows that. That being said, in order to play from 100yds in, you must still first get to 100yds and in, and that takes practice as well. Good luck.
Rob: Just a few thoughts on your right push; when my students start pushing right, I have them pick out a target, go thru their set-up, alignment, etc., then just before they swing, I tell them to stay in their set-up, close their eyes, take the club in their front/forward hand, and point to where they “think” the target is. Most of the time they are not even close to where the target is. (faulty alignment). Also, I have them make a complete swing, “hold” their finish position, point the club in the direction the ball went and look at where their feet are aligned. Most of the time their feet are aligned in the direction of the ball flight. (faulty alignment). One more thing I do is look at their grip after they have gone thru a complete “set-up”. It is usually incorrect. (faulty grip). As Don teaches, “the set-up determines the motion”. I would take a close look at your set-up, your grip, your “T-finish”, and re-check your alignment. If they are not correct, bad things happen! Hit em straight! R2
Yes I am truely shooting in the seventies really is not that hard to do with practice that is something that I would not tell a lie about after all golf is suppose to be a game of honesty.
Thanks for your comment, Jackoz. However, I was using a narrow stance before I started PPGS. If I make the swing without a club, I can focus on leaning my shoulders a little forward and standing up straight. But as soon as I put a club in my hands and swing – hips go forward, shoulders go backwards in my finish.
To Mike below. Im sorry if i made you feel like i didn't believe you, that was not my intent. My intention was to offer you a little praise by making mention of the statistic as it related to you, If you are shooting in the 70s, you are in the top 8% of all golfers, no critisism is intended. However, i will disagree with the below statement, that it is not a hard thing to do. To be in the top 8% of any sport or athletic achievment, IS NOT AN EASY THING TO DO, it takes numerious amounts of practice, and a certain measure of individual self talent. Again, i came not to criticize but to praise. Congradulation and continued success.
Just one more thought then Larry
Picture Colin Montgomeries swing – “Big inverted C”
He has no choice – It's a balance issue for him
His hips drive so far forward that something has to counterbalance it
His hips go way forward of his front foot
If his shoulders went with his hips he would fall forward & get too far ahead of the ball
So they stay back & create the “inverted C”
Perhaps you have a “big hip drive” (like Monty) instead of a “bump”
Here's a test
Push a golf shaft vertically in the ground
Take your stance with your outer front foot at the base of the shaft
Make a swing & see how much your hips move the shaft
Some great players have had this large hip drive & inverted C but it's not PPGS or body friendly
Cheers
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Cliff & all ppgsers,
I had the same problem with my driver & 3 wood when I started. It was lack of distance, pulls, & a little slice. When you hit your woods, stand taller & closer to the ball.( Pretend your legs are in cement.) I don't use a rigid left arm any longer. I go into the mitt & up the tree with what I call a noodle arm. No pressure, no stress. When my arm hits my chin, I start my bump but raise my arms 1 more inch. Now here is the key for a lot of you guys in ppgsland. (SWING FASTER). I shot my 1st even round in my life last week. Good luck & hit them straight.
Jackoz, I will try to test your reccommendation soon. I'm betting your're probably correct. I don't consciously think of the bump. It just happens. Thanks for your advice. Larry
Peter
After I tried the ppgs for about 2 weeks I developed a pain in my right knee, although my back felt great. I had a torn miniscus also and had it operated on and am back playing with a rotational swing and scoring much better. Unfortunately my back is getting sore again. Is the bad knee a coincidence? If my back continues to ache I may try the ppgs again and hope the knee problem was not related to it.
If you tore a meniscus from using the PPGS I'd love to see a video of what you were doing …. especially in just two weeks. Tiger didn't destroy his knee that fast while violently locking it. Probably just a coincidence.
I understand the back pain feeling. I want so bad to complete that smooth swing we all talk about. I now rely on motrin 800 to ready me to play a round of golf, sad this out of control old age setting in! Surge, I will continue to follow your advise and do my best and your advise and support is appreciated.
Hey Don,
I came across the Perfect Connection Golf Swing by CJ Goecks and I cannot believe that you have not tried to take this guy to court. Everything this guy teaches is like the PPGS Swing except he teaches to cock the wrists in the back swing. His website is very similar to yours and he even offers the top 10 myths about the golf swing and claims that he worked with bio mechanics for years to develop his swing. Sound familiar? I would have your attorneys check into this and see if something could be done.
On another note, love the revised videos and can't wait for more to come.
Hi Don,
I have been having problems with slicing the ball for a very long time now, for some reason i just cant't stop cutting acroos myself. Do you know anything that could help plaese.
Many Thanks Jacob.
I just read about Jims problem with back and neck pains. I was very fortunate to become acquainted with Jon Kolb the gentleman with 4 Super bowl rings with the Steelers. He set me up with a regimen which stressed stretching exercises that have been a lifesaver for me. These are not for the golf course, we all seem to have a few things we do to limber up before we hit that first tee shot. These are stretching exercises we do when we first get up in the morning. Sit on the camode, spread your legs. grab your elebows, take a deep breath, go as far down as you can go toward your toes ( Jon is in his 60's or maybe in his 70's by now, he is amazing he went down to his toes I could not do that 10years ago, now I can go almost all the way down, and it really feels good. Repeat this several times. Two really important things he taught me was to put my feet up against the wash bowl ( i ues the kitchen sink because it is sturderor ) grab hold of the sink, stretch all the way backwards until your arms are straight, hold it for a count of 10, repeat this several times. You will feel practically every muscle in your body stretch, and once again it really feels good. Next, reverse this by putting your feet far behind you, grab the sink and press forward to arch your back in the oposit direction, do this several times. Important, always exhale before doing any of these. Stand still, stretch your arms as far as you can, rotate at the waist. Add anything else you would want to do, and believe me, you will feel like you could take on the whole world. By the way, I am 81 years old and just yesterday shot a 39 with a stupid double bogey on the last hole. I hope this will help Jim
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