One of the great rewards we receive in having PeakPerformanceGolfSwing.com is meeting new folks who are true experts in their fields. J. Lynn Griffin, professional club fitter and club builder (among his other accomplishments), is one of them. He submitted this article to me and I thought I would share it.
– The Surge!
Is bigger really better in drivers? Does it really create a more forgiving club? What is the truth?
As you make the driver heads larger you move the center of gravity (COG) farther from the axis of rotation. The further the COG is from this axis, the more power/force it takes to bring the club head back to square. So, for the slower/weaker swinging golfer, the larger head is actually a hindrance to better golf. For the better golfer the ability to work the ball becomes an issue with the larger heads.
It’s not broadcast, but Nike makes a special driver head called the Nike Dymo 380 that A. Kim, T. Woods, and D. Duval (the possibility of P. Casey looms on the horizon) use. A few years ago, The Surge predicted that we would see a shift back to smaller heads, with the max topping out around 400cc. One of the best club makers in the world, Katsuhiro Miura, will not make a driver head larger than 390cc. It is his belief that this is the maximum size that allows a golfer to return the club head to square at impact with consistency and ease.
So, why have club manufacturers continued to make these large club heads. To answer this, I went to Golf Digest.
“THERE’S A REASON THE AVERAGE DRIVER size on the PGA Tour has gone from about 270 cubic centimeters to more than 350cc during the last three years, and it’s not because tour players are marketers for equipment companies. The fact is, the newer, bigger drivers being used on tour are better. A lot better. They’re even better for everyday golfers who don’t get their clubs for free. Golf Digest has the data to prove it. Our test of the last three generations of titanium drivers suggests one thing: Buy a new bigger-headed driver. If you make a good swing with it, the ball will go farther today than it used to.” – Mike Stachura, Golf Digest, May, 2003
Before continuing, I would like to point out one statement in the above information that I find particularly interesting. Notice the last sentence: “If you make a good swing …” Well there’s the catch. With the bigger heads and longer shafts it has become increasingly more difficult to make that good swing with consistency.
Can you remember heads that were 350cc? So, the rationalization is that if 350cc was good then 400cc is better. If 400cc is better, then 425cc must be great. Well, if 425cc is great then think what 460cc must be.
ENOUGH said the USGA! So, the line has been drawn or you could rest assured that they would still be getting bigger. What has happened with each progression is that it leaves a group of golfers in the dust. However, not all manufacturers have abandoned the smaller head.
The next thing club manufacturers have done is to increase the length of the shaft with the theory that the longer the shaft the greater the club head speed. In theory this is great but reality does not always follow theory. The result is most golfers cannot control the swing of drivers with shafts that are too long. If you look at the faces of their drivers you see ball marks ranging from the toe to the heel, from the top of the club to the bottom of the face. A golfer with an optimum length driver should hit the center of the club face with only slight deviation. We have also done tests and have proven quite conclusively that you can actually increase swing speed with a shorter shaft.
So, what is a golfer to do? One thing I’d advise against doing is going into the local retail golf shop and think that you will find someone who can talk with you expertly and give you sound advice on getting the right equipment for your game. I would strongly suggest finding a local qualified/certified fitter/builder. I am not talking about the hobbyist at your club who does repairs and grips on the side. Find a professional. The key is to get all the variable elements of the golf club fitted to you, the golfer. That’s what a professional will do.
J.L.G.
I hope you enjoyed this article as much as I did. Moment of Inertia (MOI) is getting to be a big deal with club makers. I’d like to know what you thought of Lynn’s piece. I know you won’t be bashful. I plan to use more experts in the near future.
Here’s to clear skies and dry fairways.
The Surge!
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Surge!
Lifesaving article! I’m building a new set (that will outlast me). Callaway X-22 irons and …? I’ve mourned over the old woods and feel betrayed that manufacturers are helping us cheat, or mark the game’s character, when in fact they are actually hurting our chance to build consistency in our swings… for money. As I write this there is an old Walter Hagan Tri-balance “wood” driver sitting on my lap. It’s going back on my wall, of course. The X-22’s are locked, but I’m now searching high and low for 350CC or close metal woods. ABSOLUTELY SOLD!!
I couldn’t agree more with the thoughts on driver head size and shaft length.
Physics is accurate–MOI is really important. As for length, if Tiger has swung a 43.5 inch driver most of his career, that should be a signal for the rest of us that anything over 44.5 is going to be difficult to control. We need to remember that golf is a target game–length is important, but accuracy is more important.
I have not visited these folks but there is a lot of really good club fitting information on their website:
http://www.calgolftech.com/company/index.html
It looks like they fit length by using impact tape and swing analyzer to find the best length clubs that provides the most distance with the best dispersion.
Gary
Surge,
Your articles are refreshingly honest, direct and lucid. What a blessing your are for those of us previously relying on the nonsense spewing from most golf magazines.
Regards, Ed Kalbaugh
You bring up an excellent point. As I grow older and my swing becomes less powerful and controlled, the larger driver becomes tougher to hit and thus “helps” increase my degree of error (and score) versus help it. However, I think the longer shafts (46″ vs 45″) becomes even more a culprit because I seem to have to swing harder to get it through square. Having played in the U. S. Senior Am and 3 British Sr Ams maybe I have some credentials.
It would be interesting to find an experienced fitter (in Dallas or Denver) that could help properly fit a slightly smaller driver. And have the names of the manufacturers that are headed in this direction. Thanks for your insightful article. As usual many things in this game are counter intuitive..
BH
Regarding shaft length, I’ve noticed most, if not all, female golfers on tour use very long shaft lengths. Some of them appear to be even as tall as the golfer. The women seem to have better swings than the men and hit it straighter than the men. The longer shaft seems to have helped the women–why wouldn’t it have the same benefit to men??
I used the “PPGS,” or at least portions of the swing, the last round I played last year. (October)
I was happy enough with the ball striking, that I thought I’d give it a try come the new (2010) season. This gave me time to go through yours & DJ’s setup & swing lessons and reading your daily tips, until one that came up stating: A strong right hand is required.” I still play right handed, but only have approx 5% use of my right hand. I am continuing using your techniques, because there are some really good things there, even for my swing. I will keep you informed as to how things go.
STROKE AND GOLF
Some visitors on this page seem to have health problems, stroke being one of the worst. It makes people weak, some limbs do not function properly, balance may be a big problem, especially when hitting. Some days ago Joan asked help, she feels that she is weak. I have also experienced stroke, my left side and balance are not good, and I am not strong. I have learned to walk twice. Last time I was 49.
I think that there are at least three principal ways to try to solve the situation and start playing satisfactory golf. They are:
1) Simple swing
2) Statistics
3) Occasional pieces of advice.
A simple and effective swing is the most important, personal stats and pieces of advice help. I do not discuss what doctors can do, I believe not much.
Statistics is very helpful. It can give information on personal development and encourage. Statistics cannot be kept exactly the same way as normally, because stroke people hardly achieve greens in regulation, even a tee shot may not reach fairways. But it is possible to follow one’s own development. I present one method very shortly and with help of it I give evidence on the quality of PPGS.
I give points to my every shot during a round. It is a personal matter how many rounds a player is willing to do that way. I did several rounds during last summer and all the five rounds in November when I had adopted PPGS. In September my knee was operated and when waiting its healing I studied the theory of PPGS and in November I could start it very cautiously.
My grading scale of shots is very precise but here I am now short:
A shot is assessed according to a player’s capability:
3 perfect shot, e.g. the player cannot hit better
2 good shot, e.g. not very long on the fairway
1 unsatisfactory, e.g. short in the rough
0 miserable (e.g. water hazard, out of bounds etc)
The player can use plus and minus signs to elaborate the assessment of a shot.
My statistics
Shots on summer time without PPGS
Tee shots 1.86
Approach shots 1.40
Short game 1.77
Putts (avg/round) 18.5 (9 holes)
Shots in November (Start of the PPGS)
Tee shots 1.90
Approach shots 1.99
Short game 1.98
Putts (avg/round) 20.2 (9 holes)
Winter was coming. I had time to hit only 40 practice shots. Then the driving range was closed. In November the greens were already very hard, almost icy and in bad condition. Putting was very difficult.
My weak spot, shots on the fairway (approach shots), improved dramatically and also short game somewhat. But the tee shots improved only very little. I had to be very cautious in the teebox because my knee was still sore. The weather conditions affected the worsening of putts.
I am sure that I am able to improve my handicap, which is humble 36, next summer.
It is clear that assessing every shot is very awkward and slows down the speed on the course. I’ll develop my system swifter and to that direction Don recommended.
Now I have given grounds and evidence that PPGS has been useful and statistics helps. Next time when I write I’ll give additional reasons why I appreciate PPGS. I’ll also give some hints to Joan and others who feel themselves weak on the course.
Up until about 3 years ago, I still used my old Maxfli woods, laminated heads. I still have them and may go back to them because of the small heads. One time we were matched up with two older gentlemen in Florida. I was hitting my old driver and one later commented around the 16th hole that he thought I hit my 4 wood quite well.The old heads were so tiny in comparison with what they were using, giant metal heads of course. When marketing of the new big heads declines maybe we will be offered real wood and aluminum shafts again, as new and improved. Surge, I think you are right again.My friends used to razz me for being so old fashioned so I am going to forward your comments to them.
Well said Surge!
I am almost 60 years old and learned to play in the early sixties, (I love persimmon). I can’t hit todays drivers to save my life. Hence I tee it up with any good 3 metal, since they are about the same size as the olden day drivers. Hit is solid, hit is straight, or can put a nice cut on shots. Hit my targets more often than not. If you don’t hit today’s massive drivers in the middle, they go no where. And with the big heads, I can NEVER find the middle. I have measured with launch monitors, and the drivers absolutely don’t give me a greater ball speed than a three metal.
You remark about “returning the club to square”. I thought the whole idea of wrist angle (e.g. “flat left wrist”) and maintaining that angle was to keep the club square the whole swing. Are you addressing those who don’t follow that model or is there another explanation? Thanks, Dave.
Well, I continually see members of my foursom as well as myself, block our tee shots out to the right. I agree with the assessment that the shafts are too long and the heads to large for the average high handicapper that is not in peak physical condition. I think the emerging popularity of the shorter shafted and smaller heads of the “hybrid” club supports this theory. I think it is directly proportional…. larger girth… smaller head. golf, that is…
This makes perfect sense!
I have known for years that my 3-wood, on most occasions, goes straighter than my driver.
I never really knew why.
Now I suspect the reason is that the head on the 3-wood is no where near the size of my 460cc Burner driver!
Thanks for the all great info Surge!
Keep up the good job!
Your article was right-on. For several years I used a no-name $49 driver with a big head that I could hit 200 yards and straight. Then Cleveland came out with a similar but lighter weight big head driver on a longer shaft and I bought it because I wanted those extra 10-25 yards off the tee. I promptly started hitting everything right, sometimes with a slice to further aid the ball into trouble — I simply could not square that head at impact. Anyway, I shortened up my grip and things straightened out but now the distance was gone and I was right back where I started, but $399 poorer. Interestingly, for years I have had a fairway wood with a normal size head that I can laser down the middle on par 5’s and it is only 10-15 yards shorter than my driver. I should have seen the message right there.
right on!
mr. griffin tells it like it is. and cudos to you,don, for shedding light on the real truth.
i am one of those qualified/certified fitter/builders.(and instructor by the way) who encounters the above with clients every day (and their notions of golf reality based on marketplace promos ).
there’s so many excellent dynamics that can be built into custom clubs! but i observe the relatively recent trend in “moi matching” amongst clubbuilders can be misleading. i would suggest that we not miss the forest for that particular tree.
i’d be happy to pursue this further,don, if there is interest. i appreciate your being a fellow enthusiastic student of the game.
blessings, rick the golf doctor
Hi Don,
Absolutely a great article you posted for us. A friend of mine Jay Turner, owner of Redbird Sports in Seattle, has advocated using a driver head size of 380cc, every since the industry went “Big.” Personally I’ve stayed with a Mizuno 300S II 9* for two reasons. Just from the feel I liked a smaller head size not to mention the sound of the over sized heads. TING! And one brand that goes “THUD.” Plus I couldn’t deal with the visual aspect of the larger heads which I have so fondly referred to my golfing buddies as a “CANTALOUPE ON A STINK!” I guess ignorance is bliss. (:) A great article from your friend J.Lynn Griffin.
Thanks much,
Loren Shumway Sewattle, WA.
Bill,
You have one of the best fitters in this nation near you in Southlake. His name is Russ Ryden. I’ve pasted his website info below. Contact him. Tell him you’re interested in a 350cc head. I will also contact him to expect you.
http://www.fit2score.com/
Surge,
What is the deal? The best driver I have ever hit is in my bag and it is bigger than 400cc. I am 5′9″ tall, and until I started using this driver I used a Titleist with a 43″ stiff shaft. I would hit on my best days 65% of fairways at about 250 yards max in distance. The driver I am using now, and have been for 6 years, is a Mike Tait designed, 454 Deep Bore from SMT Golf. I use a 45″ shaft, and since I turned 61, I now have a reqular flex shaft versus the stiff shaft. I hit close to 80% of fairways and average about 280 yard drives. I have never had a problem getting this club back to square (MOI). The use of this club, as well as my age, has slowed my swing down for better control. Thing is, I am hitting the ball farther and not swinging as hard. You will be glad to hear that I not only contribute my accuracy to the club, but also to a modified PPGS swing and the lessons learned on allignment. I used a 3/4 golf swing for years after having shoulder surgery and not being able to make the full turn. Thanks to your tips, techniques taught and better equipment, my game has become more enjoyable. Enjoy your daily comments, and my best to DJ for the 2010 season.
Sam Paul
Dripping Springs, TX
Terry W.,
The shafts look long compared to what? It’s hard to see a shaft on TV and tell if it’s 46″ or 44″. I know the average driver length on the PGA Tour is 44″-44.5″. If you’re looking at the shaft compared to the lady player’s heigth, then it really does look long since they are for the most part shorter than their men counter parts. It would be interesting to see what the average driver length is for the LPGA. I have not found that information.
I found this article very interesting. I have always hit my three wood well. I used to play with Ping persimmon woods. I always hit them well. They had the smaller heads and steel shafts. I bought a Ping G10 & a new Calaway driver while on vacation a few years a go (the G10 has a slightly bigger head than the Calaway). My thoughts were that I wanted more distance with my drives, the new and bigger clubs should help. I am 59 years old and have been noticing that I have lost distance over the past few years. One issue was the fact that I had gone from playing 3-4 rounds per week, to only getting 10 rounds in a year due to work comitments. I started using the Ping and was not consistant. I went to the Calaway (slightly smaller head) and had more success. I would still hit the odd one left or right. As my consistancy dropped, I also lost confidence with swinging at the ball with a full swing. I felt like I was trying to be to precise at contact instead of swinging full at the ball. Concequently, I would hit it shorter.
My buddies all said I needed new clubs. I told them what I needed was a new swing. This past December I was able to take in a David Ledbetter academy lesson while in Maui. My instructor was great. She worked with me to get the club a bit more forward along with my hands and and to grip the club slightly different than I was used to.
At my best, I was a 6 handicapper, who could occationally shoot just over par. After the lesson, I shot a 79 at the Emerald course. The new swing helped.
I am interested in your new swing thoughts as I am also not as flexible as I once was. As a result, it is hard to get the club back as far as say the pros do. I have tended to only take it back a 3/4 backswing as a rule.
My old swing caused me to scoop shots with irons and I tended to have an outside in swing. I am back on plane now. With your swing thoughts I am also hoping to achieve more distance.
I have gone back to older clubs with smaller heads from time to time and have had success with my results. They are also shorter shafts. I think there is definately something to the fact that smaller may be better especially for the average golfer. Trying to swing a big head and longer shaft on a different plane is not easy to achieve.
Getting my hands further to the front also allowed me to get a better tragectory with my irons, thus eliminating the scoop shots. I was able to hit more greens and feel more confident with a full swing and get better yardage with each shot.
Thanks for your helpful lessons. I am hopefull that in the Spring I will be back on track.
David K,
The issue not keeping the face square during the swing but the returning the face square at impact which takes place with force being exerted by the player and the resistance of the club to change. The further the COG is from the axis of rotation, the more force it takes to square the face at impact. It’s a phyics problem and not a hand problem.
Ric,
I’m not sure what your position is on MOI and just what the trend is but I can assure you that MOI is better way to build clubs than swing weight. MOI has been around since the early 1920s and was first. Due to the expense and time involved in MOI at that time, a brilliant individual devised the alternate method of swing weighting. So, as often is the case, the adaptation of something is not quite as good as the original. Club manufacturers still try to SW because it is much quicker and less expensive. However, the point of MOI balancing a set is that it takes the same effort to swing the 3 iron as it does the 5 iron or pitching wedge. Having that same feeling througout the set is the idea. Now, if you are talking about MOI of driver heads that became the catch phrase of about 3 years ago, I couldn’t agree more. The high MOI heads are harder to square than others and don’t really benefit the average golfer. If you have a different take on the matter, I’d be interested in hearing from you personally.
thegolfstop@att.net
Absolutely right. Take your average amateur, and they hit their 3 wood as far, and straighter, than their driver, and they wonder why. It’s control. If you’re clubhead speed is 150+ and you make a living smashing 400 yard drives, then by all means go as big as you can. But if you play GOLF, then it makes no sense. You want consistent sweet spot contact, and that comes with control. Find the longest shaft you can still control, find the largest head that the shaft can still handle. Manufacturers putting a 460cc head on a flimsy stock shaft means an open face all day long, and yes, a slice or push right.
Don:
I have a question about shaft stiffness, kick point and torque. Please tell me which shaft profile naturally provides the straightest shot given the same swing speed in every case.
Thanks
I dont care for the looks of these 460 CC drivers as they are ridiculously large, I was using a Callaway Big Bertha previous to this one a Killer Bee before that and I was never consistent with those latter two drivers although I would occassionally bomb one down the middle of the fairway. However, I went out and bought one of these 460 CC drivers about a year ago under the advice of my instructor at the time and it has helped my driving game considerably so even with its hideous looks, its the best thing that I have found to date!
Ken
Happy Golfing
15 Hdcp
First of all cudos to this article. I have been a clubmaker for nearly 20 + years. I advise anyone who buys a driver from me… Build it so you can hit it in the middle of the club. Personally my driver is 44 1/2 inches. When I was a kid aspiring greatness it was 43 inches. I am 60 …. so I have been playing for a little bit. I like the idea of shorter drivers more control more feel. Most grips are 50 grams.. now we have been introduced to 35-40 grams grips. Lighter Shafts 40-60 gram shafts and 460 CC clubheads. I am for hitting it further , but I have watched some OEM’S come up with 46 plus length drivers. In my opinion a recipe for failure. Keep stats on how far you hit it good idea , but also keep stats on how many fairways short grass wroks better for me. Also one last thing swing weight D-2 who says what the standard for swing weight is… Hogan played at C-9 Nicklaus was D-5. A lot depends on the strength and the size of the player, plus his or hers swing characteristics. A good club fitter will take in all those intangibles. The funny thing I can take two players with virtually the same swings, but one will do better with a heavier shaft a heavier swingweight. Go Figure, but no two players are the same. Find youself a clubfitter their knowledge is worth the price of those 10 drivers you have setting in your garage.
Great article. I can attest to the validity of it from my own experience. I had a 380 cc driver that I really loved, but figured I had to keep up with the times and bought the same brand but with a 460 cc head. I recently spent some time hitting both drivers on a launch monitor, and the older 380 cc driver definitely performed better. The shafts and length are virtually identical, so the big difference was the head size. I’ve switched back to using the older driver. I also had an inch cut off the shaft so that it is now 44 inches. That has also increased my accuracy.
After playing and experimenting with 460cc drivers for several years, I finally settled on my older
400cc Redbird titamium driver with a custom ACCRA shaft, 43.75′.
My fairways hit with the larger drivers averaged beteween 68 to 70%.
The 400cc driver puts me in the fairway with an 84% accuracy.
Distance wise, the sacifice is only 5yds. given up.
I average 235 yds off the tee.
So, with that said, I agree with you 110%
I just got fitted by Russ Ryden over Christmas while I was visiting my daughter. I was very pleased with the fitting. Russ has state of the art software used in the fitting, and I was amazed at the scientific processes along with his reasoning to find the right combination of shaft dynamics and club weight to produce the straightest shot with the most distance. I’m going shorter on the shaft and smaller with the head. Thanks for verifying that I’m making the right choice.
Why don’t the golf club makers bring back the old number 2 wood?
I think that it would satisfy the demmand for a shorter, smaller head and more controlled and manageable club to play from the tee, specially for older players like me, at 77 and handicap 17.
Do you agree?
Don , I bought a #3 Burner rescue club 2007 model with a smaller head flater bottom and regular flex carbon fiber mixed shaft @ 38 1/2″ lenght. What I have noticed over all the other types of rescue clubs I tried out and purchased, was they all had rounded bottoms with 24 degree heads and 28 degrees. I have noticed they do not operate well unless I place them dead center of my swing. I can not shape these clubs at all, but they do move the ball straight from the face of the clubs aim. My question here – is why is this the case? Like my #3 wood I can drive it with it a draw with little or no problem. But use the driver and watch out! I do use the 3/4 swing for most of
my driving do to past injuries outside of golf. But I’m fast appoarching sixty years old. Now I have had to use fiber shafts with regular flex to get my ball off the ground without further injuries to my back. I do notice problems when trying to belt it out of second cut grass however. Third cut grass is just forget it. The pull on my right scapula is just to much, since I’m left handed to begin with. I have not been able to get a fast swing over 110 mph anyway. So my instructor told me to slow it down. Since I was trying to rip it fast. With more control at a slower pace I seem to be right back at square one with the #3 rescue club. Since I have a hard time using a long iron which I taken out of my bag all together. I’m seem be leaning on more modifed type clubs and I wondering if this is hurting my playing as in not fair play? My stats stand at the usual 4 – 6 over par, 36 in the front nine and 32 – 34 in the back nine after warming up. Odd because I don’t seem to play well till I hit the five or sixth hole. Is this common? Ed B.
BIll Milne,
That is an impossible question to answer other than to say the one that fits the swing of the golfer using it. That’s kind of like asking what size shoe fits you best. What information do we have to go on?
Great piece on big headed drivers and extra-long shafts. I was a manager at one of the big retailers in the golf business Gof Galaxy.Every year bigger and longer,I recently read that if the public benefitted the 10 yards every year that OMGs promised we be hitting the ball about 420 yrds. Best article was several years ago with Rich Beem talking about how his driving stats all increased because he shortened his driver shaft thus giving him more control. More control,More fairways better driving stats.
Bill Pucci
To John Alper…..Bravo!
When you say “…golf is a target game–length is important, but accuracy is more important.”
I find myself asking: “…In archery, does anyone care about the speed of the arrow?”
I hope you don’t mind, but I’ll use this image in my own training….
Thanks for the thought.
Bill McCabe
Excellent article and confirmation to your call to amputate our drivers to a realistic, more practical length. My frustration is, I’ve been to three local golf course professionals and they are all reluctant to shorten my driver length due to their concerns that this shortening will impact greatly on weight/balance and extra stiffness to the shaft?
ME AND MY PLAYING ALWAYS FIGHT ABOUT 1 THING CLUB HEAD SIZE HE HITS HIS DRIVES OVER 300 YARDS BUT FINDS THE FAIRWAY ABOUT 3 OUT OF TEN AND ALWAYS THINGS HE CAN HIT THE GREEN ON SHORT PAR 4S HAS HIT 0 IN ABOUT TEN YEARS WHAT CAN I DO TO GET HIM TO SEE A BIGER CLUB HEAD IS NOT THE ANSWER TO HIS PROBLEM THANKS BARRY
Last month you offered your vidio series to me at half price.
Any chance I could take advantage of that offer now? I am ready.
Thanks
Syd,
You need to see out a club fitter/builder. Golf course professionals haven’t a clue as a rule about club work. If you shorten the shaft, you do change the balance point and will need to add weight back but it does not stiffen the shaft appreciably cutting from the butt end. However, generally speaking, the amount of shaft that needs to be cut is anywhere from an inch to one and half inches. This requires a sustantial amount of weight. For one inch you’d need to add 6 grams and for 1 1/2, you’d add 9 grams, and for 2 inches, 12 grams. By now you’re getting into the head weight of a 3 wood so the shaft will need to be pulled and trimmed 1 inch from the tip and then 1 inch from the butt in order for the club to have the same playing characteristics as before. Club pros don’t know this. Find a fitter/builder. If you don’t know one in your area, email me and I’ll help you find one.
thegolfstop@att.net
to J. Griffin :
At least part of the problem with large MOI driver heads is a “torque effect” at the transition to the forward swing. Because of the large MOI and the resultant Center of Gravity(COG) of the head being farther from the shaft, Inertia effects on the head cause it to want to “lag” behind the shaft at the start of the downswing. This causes two “defection” directions — one the familar bending or flexing of the shaft and one a rotational “deflection” around the shaft, in the direction of opening the club face.
At 5′9″, 68 years old and 170 lbs, I am not particularliy strong (or weak either) — and I can feel this “torquing open” effect with any of the stock OEM regular shaft Dirvers that I have tried — Nealry all of them on “demo days” etc. WIthout fail they “torque open” and remain open throughout the swing resulitng in a push or a “push slice” — maybe longer, but in the trees or the adjacent fairway — or possibly out of bounds. A stiffer shaft would reduce the torquing open, but with my swing speed, the “longer distance” would disappear also.
So it would seem that what is required is a shaft with a high degree of torsional stifness, combined with a correct flexural bending mode.
I am not sure how a higher swing speed would allow the club face to “square up” at impact. I would intutively think that a higher swing speed would INCREASE the “torquing open” effect — unless a sudden deceleration occurs near the hitting area. Expalin please.
Keep hitting them STRAIGHT and LONG
Amos
I totally agree with this article as far as head sizes going backwards. Everybody knows that money & sales & frequent change drives the golf industry. Speaking of going back to “retro”, (smaller headed clubs like we played back in the day), has anyone noticed the auto industry. A lot of the major sports cars of the seventies are back with retro designs. Mustang, Camaro, Charger, Challenger, etc. Golf is just like styles and the weather. If you don’t like it, stick around it’ll change. Even backward.
Hi Don:
I have noticed on several occassions people have mentioned they have not received their DVD’s. Perhaps this will help. Go on line log in to PPGS. Then at the top of the page go to My Products placing your curser there- a drop will come down with your various purchases. Hopefull, this will help.
On another note, I have been using the larger head driver with much more success than with the smaller head drivers. I understand there are other varables that has aided this improvement. However, I have started hitting further than some of those I play with as well as straighter.
I enjoyed the article. Thought is was good.Look forward to more of this type of information. Weather has been bad for about a month-game suffered today.
Bill
At last, a fitter who tells it like it is! I use an older Big Aussie Titanium driver 300cc 43in shaft, which I got out of the bargain barrel at my club, after giving up trying to find a new one which felt as good as my old 2 wood.
I also recently acquired a old Callaway Big Bertha War Bird (looks about 250cc with a 45in shaft which I grip down on) which I use with a secondhand set I take overseas with me (I wouldn’t risk my fitted set to the airlines these days).
A mate who used a Taylor Made R7 used to match me in distance & accuracy but has recently bought a modern big headed Taylor Made R9 & has lost distance & accuracy.
Hopefully this is the start of a groundswell that will persuade manufacturers to get back to drivers with normal (sub 350cc) heads.
Incidentally, I picked up an old Carnegie Clark half set at a garage sale a couple of years ago out of interest & took it to the range. I was hitting that old 2 wood driver with a 41.5in shaft only 30 metres behind where I hit my regular titanium driver with a 43in shaft!
For crying out loud. The DVDs are downloads. You will find the instructions on how and where to download them in the conformation email that is sent after you purchase. They don’t come in the mail.
CB,
On hitting your 3 metal instead of your monster size driver….Think about this Question…
If big is so good…Why have hey not made 3 woods bigger?
I just bought a new 3 wood at 13 degrees (my old faithful is 15 degrees) loft and was ready to dump all my drivers as I was certain it would consistently hit it more solid, and as far or farther and straighter than my 460cc drivers. I even bought a downsized 430cc driver and there was still too much missing the sweet spot and dispersion on these slight mis hits.
But as I said and predicted in the driver head size article a few weeks ago that Driers will start getting smaller and they will find an optimum size that I predicted would come in between 330cc and 400cc I found a 355cc that is just awesome in feel and solidness.
The point of this, I would suggest we start trying smaller driver heads and with the correct length and flex shaft that a club fitter can help get right. With this we amy all start driving the ball better.
The Surge!
I agree. I have a 460cc TaylorMade Burner Driver. It’s better than my old on in terms of forgiveness, but the mis-hits are not always forgiving. So I think that the COG should be closer to the face but not to the side, because I’m not a pro on hitting my driver. This would make it easier on me and other ameteurs all over the nation, even pros alike. If thats not possible, make the face a littile bit thicker so it could last and give great results.
3Its funny this article came up I just received a club fitting from j griffin , he’s professional solid and knowlegdable, and for some one that’s up here in montana I felt like I was s.c getting fitted personally 355cc is what I’m playing till the good Lord takes me home its not the indian its the arrow get your clubs fitted http://www.thegolfstop.net a lot of great info and I hope j griffin doesn’t mind if you can’t get a custom fitter your way contact j griffin he… will hook you up straight down the fairway is the name of the game thanks don and j griffin
Does anyone know of a reputable club fitter in Edmonton area?
Amos:
MOI is a ratio of torque applied to an object free to rotate around an axis to the acceleration produced. The club rotates around a second axis which roughly coincides with the wrists. The MOI effects the release. So, the higher the MOI, the more strength, effort, force, speed, it takes to get the release which is squaring the club head. Also, their is a deceleration of the swing as it approaches impact which allows the club head speed to increase by the flex of the shaft. Admittedly, I agree that the larger MOI heads could be improved with a tip that is stiffer but then this opens another whole can of worms for soft swingers as it gives a harsher feel and does not allow for the “kick” feel at impact.
Canadian Fitters:
Sean Baines – Level 7 Qualified and Certified
Clubs That Fit
57 Cedarhurst Drive
Richmond Hill, ON, Canada
(416)318-7449
http://www.clubsthatfit.ca
info@clubsthatfit.ca
Professional Clubmakers Society Certified Class “A” Clubmaker
Professional Clubfitting School – Maltby Clubmaking Academy
Don Irving – Level 10 Plus Retail
Artisan Golf Co.
#3-215 Terence Matthews Cres., Ottawa, ON, Canada
(613) 592-0524 http://www.artisangolfco.com
dirving@bellnet.ca
Professional Clubmakers Society – Advanced Professional Clubmaker
Professional Clubmakers Society – Certified Class “A Clubmaker
Professional Clubmakers Society – Certified Class “A” Clubfitter
Professional Clubmakers Society – Certified Class “A” Club Repairer
Professional Clubmakers Society – Advanced Fitting School
KZG Master Clubfitter
KZG Top 100 Clubfitters
KZG Canadian 2008 Dealer of the Year
Professional Clubmakers Society — Regional Clubmaker of the year 2005, 2007 and 2008
ACCRA Top 50 Shaft Technologist and Diamond Dealer
Ben Shipton
ShipShape Clubs
2225 Lee Valley Road
Espanola, ON P5E 1P7
Canada
Tel: 705.863.0837
Email: Ben@ShipShapeClubs.com
John Wade
403-30 Westheights Drive
Kitchener Ontario N2N 3A4
Canada
519-591-4653
john.wade@rogers.com
to J Griffin:
Thanks for you excellent answer to my question.
btw — your definition of MOI is a practical, laboratory method of measuring MOI. To the engineer or club designer, to calculate MOI, imagine the club head as being made up of many(perhaps 1000’s) of tiny elements tightly bonded together. MOI then becomes sum total of the Mass of each element multiplied but the radius squared of the element from the axis under consideration. In this case the bore hole for the shaft. Hence a tiny weight near the toe of the club has a HUGE impact on MOI, vs the same weight applied at the heel of the club.
Back in the day, I seem to recall seeing a few laminated Maple drivers that had brass weights built into the toe of the club – and some that had a brass weight at the rear of the club. So in theory at least, a small headed driver OCULD have a large MOI !
The bottom line then is that I can not “square up” a large MOI driver due to my slow swing speed(best estimate, mid to high 80’s with maybe 90 occasionally) . Interesting!!
Keep hitting them STRAIGHT and LONG
Amos
what i have noticed with these huge heads and the longer shafts that my high school players have been buying at the local golf shops is that they have to choke down on the clubs to make them hit a straight shot……hmmmm………..these kids are getting frustrated……maybe all this new technology is taking a toll on the game…..as you all know the game of golf is suffering….there is not one golf course in the country that is not experiencing a drop in play…now what…….??????????
Great Article … as a hobbists clubmaker, the smaller driver head and shafts work great. The article explained in detail the need for fitter clubs. Anyone can buy off the shelf ,,, so many golfers believe they can buy a game. Fall into spending $$$ for the latests and greatest clubs. Many golfers based their club purchase on recommendations by leading Golf Magazines.
I say keep it simple and get fitter
I’ve been golfing for sometime. I’m now 81 yrs. The past five or so years of playing, I have used my 3-wood as my driver. I want you to know, I’m not a John Daly, but I can put that ball out there with those long hitters and be in the fairway. They are most often in the rough. That BIG head is not for me……………….
Surge,
I really like the article by J. Lynn Griffin. Over the holidays I have had my drivers cut down to 43.5″ and found that I have more control off the tee.
I have had problems within the last two years hitting my driver and wondering why can’t I hit this thing like I use to. So from reading your articles on driver head size and shaft lenght, I went back to a persimmon head driver in my basement to chek the shaft lenght and found it to be 43″ in lenght. Back then I could hit the ball anywhere I wanted to with control, so now I am back to where I want to be in distance and control because 500 yards in the woods means only two things boggies and double boggies. Not to mention your friend making fun of the game you thought you had.
Thanks for the article and thanks for the PPGS
Herbert
Amos,
I used to play a course in S.C. Ft. Mill Golf Club. It is a Donald Ross design 1947 and back then I think it was a tour stop. Then I used a Powerbuilt laminated maple driver with a brass weight in the back. It was a beautiful club. I played that course so often I knew where my drives would go most of the time. Now after 25+ years later I went back to that course and using my Taylormade Burner my drives did not have the the distance I had then. Of course age has a lot to do with it.
Don,
After reading you article on Distance v Direction I had my Mizuno mp-600 driver cut down 2 inches yesterday & had a round today at my local course. I was amazed but not surprised at how straight & LONG I was hitting the ball. The most consistent driving I’ve ever produced. The driver has always given me grief since I took up golf 4 years ago & now I feel like my game/scoring will improve out of sight. Your PPGS has revolutionised my game since Ive discovered your website 5 months ago & I have consantly picked up great tips along the way but this one about the drivers is HUGE.
Thanks sooo much for everything Surge, keep up the great work mate!!!
Sergey
Surge,
I had my Cobra F Speed driver cut back from a 45 inch to 44 inches four months ago. At first I was losing some distance although hitting about 10-12 fairways. After about four rounds my driving accuracy improved even more and my distance is as great or greater than before. Wow! I am a senior golfer with age related limited flexibility. Your swing mechanics work. Just stay with the basics of the set-up and swing up. My divots are “shavings” compared to what they were before.
I have a question regarding my 5 wood and 3,4,5 hybrids. Do you recommend that they also be reduced by approximately 1 inch. I am hitting a Cobra 5 wood and Adams A5 hybrids. Your response would be greatly appreciated.
Great article J. Griffin, and thanks Surge!
Since I cut my driver from 45 to 43 and from a stiff shaft to a regular, I am in the fairway and long enough most fof the time. Now I’m on or near the geen in regulation.
Yesterday I played golf in 25 mph winds with my brother in PRIMM (state line Nevada/California by Las Vegas) Tough course! Any how had to tell you guys on 18 (a par 5, 505 yards) I had my first EAGLE in #### years. Drive down the middle and long. Second shot was a hybrid 21 degree landed on green and rolled and curled from left to right to 2 feet! Tap in eagle!
Thanks Surge for helping me get my drives out of the right rough and down the middle.
Keep the super articles coming.
PS. Miss my old 2 wood too and the young kid who swung it back then.
Robert
To Flavio:
With the abundance of heads having 12* 12.5* 13* 13.5* 14.5* of loft, it should be simple to replicate the woods of old, however then denominated. Again, the secret is to get yourself to a qualified fitter/maker of clubs.
Michael
Bill Wilson,
The answer requires a question. How well do you hit the other woods at the length they are now. If you can hit them and control them the length they are, no need to change. If not, you have your answer.
I have a theory about shaft legnth I would like to share and would like anyone’s comments. The longer the shaft (i.e. the driver) the flatter the swing arc. Conversely, the shorter the shaft the more verticle the swing arc (i.e. the wedge or 9 iron). If all shots were executed from off a “T” that was at least waist high or higher, the swing arc would be almost horizontal. I know that sounds ridiculous but I’m just trying to make a point. Think how difficult it would be to hit an accurate shot. If the timing wasn’t just perfect, the shot would be either right or left of the desired target. My point, the shorter the shaft the more accurate the shot, even if the timing isn’t perfect. So now, one has to find the perfect balance between accuracy and distance when deciding on how long the shaft of the driver should be. Does that make sense?
To Micheal Brodie:
You are correct concerning replicating the 2 wood by loft. However, unless you’ve felt a persimon club(ie. a 2W or “1″)
You don’t what we mean. The solid feel of wood and the sound and feedback were different and more importantly, we were all 10 or more years younger. I don’t so much want to go back to”real” wood but might like to hit a few just to feel those days again. Anyone else feel the same once in a while?
Down the middle,Robert
Don,
I just figured out I was not paying to good of attention to you Jan 13th article on the position of the photographer in picture number one.
Great job! I thought after you taught me how to hit a wood I was doing it wrong thinking the picture was from the front and there was no way I could draw the line through my shoulder to my shoelaces.
Whew
Great pick with Mr. Griffin.
Rod
PS Have you thought of a “Webcast” I think you could sell this as it would clear up all most all of the repeat question from dummy’s like me. Especially all the repeat question on risk cock.
Great article Don on the drivers. I’m 70 years old, 5′11″, 22 handicap with a fairly slow swing speed. I usually hit 200-215 yds with a large head driver – not always the most accurate. I have always been told that I should use a senior flex shaft on my clubs and irons.
If I purchase a club as recommended in the article – 350 head with a 43.5 or 44″ shaft – will a senior flex or a regular flex make that much difference in my swing speed and the ’square’ of the ball contact.
Thanks for all the great and inspiring articles.
Thanks for the conformation. I thought my swing had went to the birds. My wife bought me a new 460cc driver last year and I thought, o’boy. When I get the driver face back to square, I do hit the ball alot farther, but the down side was no consistency. I noticed ball marks from the toe to the heel. My scores went up as I had to scramble more. I did the only logical thing, I went back to my old 360cc driver. With a few trips to the driving range, now most of shots with the driver are in the fairway. I still need more work on, you guessed it, alignment. Thanks again. Don B.
You’ve finally got my attention. Do you know of any good club fitters in the Salt Lake City area. Think I need to change from my 460cc and 46″ shaft. I’m one who hits my 3 wood about as far as my driver.
I want to add to Gary’s comment on Thur 1-14 about the Golf Lab in Palo Alto, CA. http://www.calgolftech.com. I have been a “tester” for the Golf Lab for almost five years and can verify that Leith Anderson, one of the owners, is one of the most respected club fitters in the US. Players from around the globe visit the Golf Lab when they come to California. My involvement as a “tester” has been to provide feedback about how different club configurations actually perform under playing conditions on the golf course.
This is a great article. I just play golf with a few family members and mates. I have a standard shop set of clubs with a large head driver with a long shaft. I also have a couple of fairway drivers so I will try using them instead of the larger one. Hopefully this together with the 10 video tips will make a big difference to my game.
Cheers, Haz
Maurice,
If you consider the thing above my post here an email you are mistaken. It’s blog entry. If you want to contact customer service please look at the information below where it say PLEASE LEAVE ME YOUR COMMENTS & QUESTIONS. But if you want to burn CDS YOU have to save them first to your computer in order to burn.
Hey, I just found this blog, ironically, through this article. I took up golfing last year, and like all things I do, intense and full-on. I was golfing every day, driving range on the days I couldn’t golf, reading all the magazines for all the tips, etc. Trashed over half my cheapo set of clubs from Walmart, and two drivers. So this year, I bought a golf set second hand, because I figured I needed a step up in quality, but I’m not good enough to invest yet, or have a consistent enough swing to get a fitted set. So, the point to this story is: The second hand golf set had an old fashioned, small headed driver. I figured, what the heck. I’ll take it out and hit a few and see what it’s made of. See if I have to go buy a new, 460cc driver. Well, guess what? With no loss of distance (for what there is, being new to it and all!), that small headed driver was sending over 80 percent of my drives right down the middle, in those gorgeous flights. Heading left then curving back to the right. I found out, that if I kept my eye on the ball to make good contact with the club, the shot was always great. With my big headed driver, shots were always doing weird things, once in a while I’d get a great shot that I’d be ecstatic about, but most of my distance drives were still being recovered from the rough or the trees. I’m so happy that I found someone who agrees with me!